Brown Trout Petition for the Eleven Point

[gonefishin]

EXACTLY. I'd rather catch a smallie, goggle-eye, or pickerel any day over a troot.

I think I'm gonna start a poll, no make that petition to erradicate ALL trout from the 11pt.

Give the Brown Bass their river back.

Pickerel: Now there is a fish I have never caught in MO. I caught a few in KY and OH but have never even seen one in MO. Maybe the 11 pt should be made into a world class Pickerel river. Everyone in favor say YEAH!

[jdmidwest]

Pickerel are found in several colder streams in southern Missouri. 11pt, Little Black River, Cane Creek, Hurricane Creek to name a few. Also Duck Creek and Stanley Creek have a good population of the Chain Pickerels. Excellent fish on a fly rod and are worth a trip. I have caught fish to 36".

[hank franklin]

I don't really have an opinion on brown trout in the Eleven Point. If the science is favorable, then it's probably OK. I'd want to see some pretty thorough science first though.

If the MDC is watching, I want to see more attention given to smallmouth, period.

[jcoberley]

I was reading the post and happen to think about something. Maybe we are stocking trout and they are eating what the natural fish do and they might be starving out. It’s just a thought! I know that the food chain and amount is limited, as with anything else’s food supply.

[Al Agnew]

Upper and middle Current is full of chain pickerel, as well. And the Jacks Fork between Alley and Eminence has a lot of them.

Trying to make the trout section of the Eleven Point world class smallmouth water probably is counterproductive. The water is just too cold to be good habitat. The smallies can live in it but they don't have the numbers they do in warmer water. I don't think trout are the reason.

[jdmidwest]

The entire length of the 11pt is managed by MDC with a special 15" length, 1 fish smallmouth limit already. It also has an 8" limit on goggle eye and an 18" limit on walleye and sauger. MDC manages it for warm water species also, and the fishing has improved over the past few years. The walleye are on the decline and they are trying to figure out why.

With the exception of the areas around Greer and Boze Mill springs, the warm water species do really well. You can find many Smallmouth fishers below Turner any time you go down. The river above Greer is excellent also producing 18" to 20" fish consistantly.

[hornyheadchub]

Upper and middle Current is full of chain pickerel, as well. And the Jacks Fork between Alley and Eminence has a lot of them.

I've fished the crap out of both of these stretches of water for the last 15 years and I can count on one hand how many Pickerel I've caught and seen caught. Maybe you have a particularly good bait or fly, but to say that one of these fisheries is "full" of them is something I have not experienced and I'm sure that many people will agree.

Trying to make the trout section of the Eleven Point world class smallmouth water probably is counterproductive.

Please elaborate; counterproductive to managing a, as we are led to believe in this thread, failing Trout Fishery?

The water is just too cold to be good habitat. The smallies can live in it but they don't have the numbers they do in warmer water.

Ever been to Canada? Or the Boundry Waters? This logic doesn't wash.

I don't think trout are the reason.

Anytime you have a stream that has evolved over the ages with a couple of Apex Predators, and you then add another you limit the carrying capacity of that ecosystem even further. Simply put, Trout directly compete with Smallmouth Bass, period.

Pickerel: Now there is a fish I have never caught in MO. I caught a few in KY and OH but have never even seen one in MO. Maybe the 11 pt should be made into a world class Pickerel river. Everyone in favor say YEAH!

From this link:

When and where

Chain pickerel lurk throughout underwater weed beds, waiting to ambush prey and make an angler's day. They make themselves scarce on sunny days, but you can find them foraging in open water near dusk and dawn and on overcast days. They love cool water, so they are most active in January, February and March.

Spawning usually occurs in mid to late February. Chains don't eat while protecting their eggs, but they will pick up intruding lures and carry them away from the nest area, giving you time to set the hook.

Pool 1 at Duck Creek CA is the state's chain pickerel fishing hot spot. The average fish caught there measures 18 to 22 inches. Fishing season at Duck Creek begins the day after duck season ends.

Noblett Lake, owned by the USDA Forest Service, is one of several chain pickerel hot spots. Electrofishing surveys at this 25-acre lake, located off Highway AP, five miles southwest of Willow Springs, have turned up several fish more than two feet long. Most pickerel are taken along the edge of weedbeds on the north side of the lake.

Sims Valley Community Lake, located at the end of Highway RA, seven miles east of Willow Springs, has chains measuring 30 inches. The best place to catch them is around weedbeds in the upper ends of the lake's two arms.

Sloughs, cutoff creek channels and spring pools along the Current, Jacks Fork and lower Eleven Point rivers harbor chain pickerel up to four pounds. Wading anglers can find good action on tributaries of these streams.

Mark Nickless of De Soto has made a fairly serious survey of chain pickerel fishing spots. He says the biggest concentration he has seen is at Montauk State Park. He says Maramec Spring Park has its share of chains, too.

[Gavin]

From my conversations with the biologists...Food isnt the limiting factor in the blue ribbon stretch of the 11pt. There are plenty of minnows and crayfish, but not a many of trout. Last data I saw published was around 130 trout per mile..For comparison, the Current holds around 450 fish per mile and its much smaller water.

For some reason the 11pt just doesnt seem to be living up to its potential as a trout fishery. Thats why I'd like to see brown trout down there. Brown trout thrive in the Current, so I'd imagine that they would do REALLY well in the 11pt.

Not sure about the chain pickeral at Montauk...There might be a bunch of them up in the Catch & Release Spring (it looks like good pickeral habitat) but I rarely see pickeral, and I've only caught one on the river between Montauk and Cedar Grove. Not so on the 11pt..Its pretty rare when I dont catch a couple pickeral down there. If you want to target them...try the stairstep hole below Greer, the slough by Hurricane Creek, or the back eddy at Stinking Pond. McCormack like has a bunch of them, as does Noblett Lake. You rarely catch them on flies, but they are suckers for a bluegill colored crankbaits and large in-line spinners. wee-craws work too. Cheers.

[hornyheadchub]

From my conversations with the biologists...Food isnt the limiting factor in the blue ribbon stretch of the 11pt. There are plenty of minnows and crayfish, but not a many of trout. Last data I saw published was around 130 trout per mile..For comparison, the Current holds around 450 fish per mile and its much smaller water.

Is this published data available? If so, please post it or link to it.

many thanks.

[Gavin]

They dont publish the data on a website anywhere but I saw the 11pt population per mile number in a recent issue of the River Hills Traveler, and I got the Current R. data from Dave Mayers. Give em a call or shoot em an email with your questions. It might take em a couple days to get back with you, but they are pretty good at answering questions..

FWIW, Jon Ackerson is the 11pt biologist, Dave Mayers is the Current River biologist, and A.J. Pratt is the biologist for the NFOW & Bull Shoals.