Brown Trout Petition for the Eleven Point

[jcoberley]

Eleven Point River is designated as a "Wild and Scenic River", protecting it from development that infringes upon the natural character and beauty of the river. So with that in mind I am for keeping it that way!!!!

[Greg]

Uhhhh, what??? Of course they reproduce, what ever gave you this idea??

In fact, the substrate in the Ozarks is well suited for Brown Trout reproduction. Just ask the Hatchery managers at Shepard of the Hills. They had dismal success at spawning and rearing Browns until they started removing them from the concrete raceways and put them on ones with gravel bottoms.

Further, I've caught lots of tiny Browns (too small to be stockers) on the North Fork of the White up around Rainbow Springs.

Of course they reproduce in hatcheries. But ask anyone in the MDC and they will tell you that any reproduction of brown trout in MO streams is either non-existent or very, very limited. I've both talked to staff at the MDC and read this. So again I say that even though they can reproduce in a hatchery setting - all the MDC has to do is stop producing them if they are causing a problem. Which I seriously doubt they would in the first place.

See this website:

http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/1999/05/30.htm

There is no mention of wild brown trout. Only rainbows because that's all there are.

Greg

[superfly]

Brian, Has the MDC or Jon Acherson send you any charts or data to share about the 11point? Any new news on the topic? Superfly

[Brian Sloss]

Talked to him the other day and he said he had not forgotten but has not had a chance to send it yet, but that he would when he gets the chance.

[brownieman]

In order to spawn successfully bows need a sustainable 55 degree water temp for 21 days

Browns desire the water to be 51 degrees with hatch time being 48 to 52 days.

I have caught "free flowing " female browns in 2 different rivers...most of the free flowing eggs I have seen would be questionable at best from my observations concerning healthy eggs.

Between good water quality and sustainable temps there are varied opinions on spawning.

IMO trout fry are highly vulnerable to predators for as they lay on the bottom of the stream bed before loss of their egg sack before "swimming up".

IMO streches of the 11 pt. may be favorable for successful spawning to occur.

I am unable to sit on the bank with a thermometer...so...this is just speculation on my part for whatever it's worth...probably not much, lol.

[gonefishin]

In order to spawn successfully bows need a sustainable 55 degree water temp for 21 days

Browns desire the water to be 51 degrees with hatch time being 48 to 52 days.

I have caught "free flowing " female browns in 2 different rivers...most of the free flowing eggs I have seen would be questionable at best from my observations concerning healthy eggs.

Between good water quality and sustainable temps there are varied opinions on spawning.

IMO trout fry are highly vulnerable to predators for as they lay on the bottom of the stream bed before loss of their egg sack before "swimming up".

IMO streches of the 11 pt. may be favorable for successful spawning to occur.

I am unable to sit on the bank with a thermometer...so...this is just speculation on my part for whatever it's worth...probably not much, lol.

Interesting. This sounds like something I would read published by MDC. Do you work for a conservation department somewhere?? At any rate, if it will support spawning of brown trout it would apparently support spawning of rainbow. Of the two I would rather see them stock bows.

[brownieman]

Interesting. This sounds like something I would read published by MDC. Do you work for a conservation department somewhere?? At any rate, if it will support spawning of brown trout it would apparently support spawning of rainbow. Of the two I would rather see them stock bows.

gf,

I have worked in conjunction with both private aquaculturists and state agencies through the years.

Concerning water and all that exists in it has been my area of expertise for many years... I do have some training and have had numerous classes but pretty much the things I've learned are through experience...pretty darn good teacher for myself anyway, lol.

As far as pickeral, chain and grass ( chains being predominately the larger of the species) they eat an amazing amount of forage, they compare to a small muskie in essence. They are very aggressive and have a tendancy to eat anything (preferably other fish) that they can get ahold of.

IMO if too large of a population exists in any given water whether it be lake, pond or river they may have a negative impact on any species of fish that co-exist with them.

[gonefishin]

I just wondered. I reckon I chose a poor way to ask a question. A better choice would have been are you a fish biologist.

Its amazing what a person can learn just from reading. Can get a heck of an education at the local library.

Pickerel is a fish I am interested in because I have never caught one and there aren't many places where they are abundant in MO.

I am probably in the minority but I do prefer bows over browns.

[drew03cmc]

If we can find any sustainable eveidence that browns might be able to spawn in the 11pt, they might try stocking them. Even so, I want to see browns in the 11pt for the fact that like Al says, smallies do not thrive at trout water temps, even though occasionally the best browns in a river can be caught in prime smallie habitat. I am intrigued by the differing opinions on this matter and am eagerly awaiting more information!

[brownieman]

If we can find any sustainable eveidence that browns might be able to spawn in the 11pt, they might try stocking them. Even so, I want to see browns in the 11pt for the fact that like Al says, smallies do not thrive at trout water temps, even though occasionally the best browns in a river can be caught in prime smallie habitat. I am intrigued by the differing opinions on this matter and am eagerly awaiting more information!

I'll try to keep it brief, the following is speculation on my part.

I do believe smallies and browns can share the same water as long as there is forage, if the water warms in summer the trout will seek the colder water temps, smallies don't mind the warmer water...warmwater / coldwater each will find their habitat. IMO it will have to be over studied before any serious considerations will be given ??

IMO a feasability study, desirable conditions, cost/analysis

distance for transport, stocking methods,etc.

availability of hatcheries to produce the required numbers

the profile of the area in question, access points, acquiring more access points...land ownership, etc.

environmental impact and all related concerns

I could go on but I'm boring myself, lol

IMO the list goes on...just some things possibly to think about.