MDC income

[brownieman]

G B...you really think I hold faith in all I read in a blog...whatever...has nothing to do wiith hunting...has to so with water quality so I'm told...lead...lead sinkers will be next...think about behind the dams, tons of em lost...2,3 ounces each, a little bigger than buckshot...plus they may be able to issue a few more tickets and generate some badly needed revenue..HA !...as you put it

you really think I don't realize anyone could put up those posts?...cmon...but it they were present employees I bet they wouldn't put their name on it...you know why...must not

you say you're hooked on reality...well then drive around the rural areas and take a real hard look...you'll never see it if you don't know where to look...I can show the things I see, can you?

I'll answer for gf...it's not hard to tell what he wants to know.

Where the hell does the money go, all of it...even a cpa stated with records, reports, if he ran his business like they did he would have no clients...must be nice to have to show no accountability ( or lumped in such a broad spectrum ) or even keep up to date annual reports ( not like they don't have the office help to do so )...most don't have that priveledge.

We can break it down harder if you want...gotta feeling some are trying, lol

[gonefishin]

Wow! I just read most of these posts. Very interesting. I just ask this one question. Name any city, county, state, of Fed. agency that you get this much bang per buck, out of your tax dollar. I feel that all my other tax dollars are pretty much squandered away. But, I see alot of results from the MDC.

Creek Wader you may be right but, then you may be wrong. We may not be getting much bang for the buck at all. How does anyone know. How much has really been done with all of the billions taken in by the MDC. There appears to be no accountability as to how the funds are used. Their statements can be looked at but they make no sense. It takes them 3 to 4 years to put out a statement. So I ask, how do you really know we are getting a good bang for our bucks?

[brownieman]

Wow! I just read most of these posts. Very interesting. I just ask this one question. Name any city, county, state, of Fed. agency that you get this much bang per buck, out of your tax dollar. I feel that all my other tax dollars are pretty much squandered away. But, I see alot of results from the MDC.

there are good things...all agree on that...there should just be more bang, a big bank that heps the common folks who support them instead of pet programs...I can give you examples of some real money pits that millions have been spent on for one reason only.

They have an ex director, commissioner, etc name in their title.

How about a few men on tractors working on re-establishing habitat for vanishing small game species, prarie chickens, quail, etc....instead we get task forces, commitees, studies, meetings...no one to stick a shovel in the ground...hand tools are kinda frowned upon imo by most people...especially state employees.

How about some incentives for landowners to leave some edges on their crop fields...nope...fescue, cattle...they practice things that puts a little money in their pocket.

IMO most of their efforts are geared towards whichever generates the most revenue, deer, turkey, trout and the the fees that are connected to such things.

C W...imo they see what they want you to see and they tell you what they think you want to hear.

IMO few really know what goes on behind the scenes and If we did...well...quite frankly I feel most would not like it...there is lots of money spent...but well spent...who can tell by the info they give us and in such a timely manner, lol.

My opinion...just the tip of the iceberg guys and allot of money is spent trying to get us to buy into it...whatever the case...this old boy aint buyin it...you buy it, go ahead...thats your right...means their doin a good job, lol

[Gavin]

From what I've read...I think some of you will never be happy with what MDC does for you...They could do a better job in some areas, but they are still the best Conservation Department in the nation.

They have some real enemies..Farm Bureau and other Ag interests, state legislators in both parties who would love to take their money, lots of ill will from folks who wanted to buy land that MDC purchased or ran foul of regulations, property rights wacko's, folks who hate the duck parks, and the list goes on.

From a brief review of their financials,

the sales tax provides the bulk of their funding..around 120M a year Permit sales are 30M a year. So its obvious that the bulk of their funding comes from folks who dont hunt or fish...and the rest comes from federal grants and other sources.

As for expenditures..

Looks like 70M a year goes to payroll and benefits

Around 30-40M a year goes into land aquisition, capital improvements and maintenance

10-15M a year goes into travel and vehicle expenses

and the rest goes to admin costs, programs,etc.

There spending just about everything they take in...and if thats not enough for you, figure out how they can get more money for what you want..Bought the only way to do that would be by cutting payroll or reshuffling the mix of employees. I'm done with this topic know, bicker amongst yourselves.

[gonefishin]

Lets have a poker game, only catch is I get to start with a lot more money than everybody else. Not real hard to be the best under those circumstances.

This is a quote from one of their publications, I posted it earlier. "The amount of sales tax generated from the forest products industry and fish and wildlife recreation is well over the amount of sales tax received by the Missouri Department of Conservation from the Conservation Sales Tax; in other words, conservation pays its way in Missouri."

Doesn't 70 mil in payroll and bennies seem just a bit excessive?

From your figures the total income is 150 mil and of this 150 mil they can only come up with 25 mil to actually spend on conservation. Again that seems a tad excessive to me.

Seems like there is a lot of pork in the program to me but, I am just a dumb plow boy from MO so what do I know.

[jcoberley]

Missouri has 68886 square miles of land times 640 square acres per mile = 44087040 acres little over 44 m. Now in 30 years of the 1/8 cent tax 100 m. a year times 30 years = 300 m. 1000.00 dollors per acre avg over 30 years. I get about 300 thousand acres! not counting acres pre 1/8 tax acres. Dose anyone know just how much land MCD Owns? I haven't a clue and I have been reserching and no one knows. I Called them on the phone and was told they didnt really know. And is it open for us to use? HELLO People wake up!!!!! I am not against MDC however should they be incressing our cost and cutting limits? Hummm there is something really wrong with that thought. I also have been looking in to there spending and people in SE Missouri should be more than pleased. There is more spent there than anywhere else in missouri. They spend a very small percent of their bubget on stocking fish.

[brownieman]

From what I've read...I think some of you will never be happy with what MDC does for you...They could do a better job in some areas, but they are still the best Conservation Department in the nation.

They have some real enemies..Farm Bureau and other Ag interests, state legislators in both parties who would love to take their money, lots of ill will from folks who wanted to buy land that MDC purchased or ran foul of regulations, property rights wacko's, folks who hate the duck parks, and the list goes on.

From a brief review of their financials,

the sales tax provides the bulk of their funding..around 120M a year Permit sales are 30M a year. So its obvious that the bulk of their funding comes from folks who dont hunt or fish...and the rest comes from federal grants and other sources.

As for expenditures..

Looks like 70M a year goes to payroll and benefits

Around 30-40M a year goes into land aquisition, capital improvements and maintenance

10-15M a year goes into travel and vehicle expenses

and the rest goes to admin costs, programs,etc.

There spending just about everything they take in...and if thats not enough for you, figure out how they can get more money for what you want..Bought the only way to do that would be by cutting payroll or reshuffling the mix of employees. I'm done with this topic know, bicker amongst yourselves.

Gavin,

Thanks for breaking it down and putting expeduratures to paper.

You state "by cutting payroll or reshuffling the mix of employees"...after all of this in my opinion now we are getting to where the real problem lies.

My opinion is, note, we are all entitled to our opinions even if we differ...it's what makes for a healthy debate...heck if we all saw eye to eye...boring...we aint robots, lol...but there are allot of puppets, ya know.

Payroll and Benefits;

most present and past employees I have spoke with are just riding it out trying to make it to retirement age which with the state is out at 80. Just a paycheck to most. The mindset...It's been done this way for 30 years...whatever...better just row that boat and not rock it...your position is easily re-filled.

You got an idea...keep it to yourself unless you can hand it to a higher level person and them stick a feather in their hat for it...imo the state will ruin a good hard worker.

Capital improvements and Maintenance;

The bulk of this goes to high profile areas...they cater to the vote and do a fine job of it...here is where the tool called propoganda is the most useful.

Travel and Vehicles:

This figure could be trimmed in half...terribly abused...I won't even get into this one...this post is getting so lengthy and a book could be written about this category.

Administrative Costs and Programs;

Meetings, task forces, studies, training, pet programs, etc....whatever. The last employees I spoke with were required to attend such things or they did not get their salary increases...by the way of which we have no say even though we are there life blood.

IMO most employees attend these things (and all related expenses incured, travel, meals, lodging) because they are required to...just sitting through some boring meetings and/or training that they could care less about...more like a few paid days off to most, but hey, beats being at so called "work", lol.

IMO some new employees come into the MDC with good intent...they are dis-illusioned and dishearted pretty quick...you know, thats not the way we do things here, get used to it or you won't last long. It really is a shame but imo a reality.

Al,

You seem to me to show genuine concern for our states natural resources...we are in the same boat my friend...but you did mention earlier in this thread you were friends with bioligists, you had supplied artwork for little or no cost to the dept (good cheap advertising though) and you had seen things go by un-noticed...did you not ? You are not on their payroll but imo this is an affiliation...please correct me if I'm wrong. IMO you do have total respect for good ole mother nature...you just need some non rose colored glasses to take a look through my friend. I feel you would not care much for the things you see.

[Gavin]

No revelations there.... The first rule of Government service states that "Though shalt add bodies and programs until thy budget is gone." Cheers.

[brownieman]

No revelations there.... The first rule of Government service states that "Though shalt add bodies and programs until thy budget is gone." Cheers.

Hey...you said you were outta here, lol

just could'nt resist than one, could ya, lmao

Thanks to you and all the number crunchers...don't care for it much myself but I'm glad some are good at it...

[Chief Grey Bear]

G B...you really think I hold faith in all I read in a blog...whatever...has nothing to do wiith hunting...has to so with water quality so I'm told...lead...lead sinkers will be next...think about behind the dams, tons of em lost...2,3 ounces each, a little bigger than buckshot...plus they may be able to issue a few more tickets and generate some badly needed revenue..HA !...as you put it

I didn't think you knew. I would love to see that shotgun you use that has buckshot that is just a little bit smaller that 2 or 3 oz though.

you really think I don't realize anyone could put up those posts?...cmon...but it they were present employees I bet they wouldn't put their name on it...you know why...must not

Brilliant thought. I would have nerver thought it.

you say you're hooked on reality...well then drive around the rural areas and take a real hard look...you'll never see it if you don't know where to look...I can show the things I see, can you?

I live and work in the rual area. I see all types of things. What is it you want to show me?