MDC income

[jdmidwest]

I did not discuss the DNR, it is a separate Federal Entity that draws its money from the Federal Gov. I don't think you even get a chance to vote for their money. DNR's funding was cut by the last president and we pay more for it as a result. MDC is a state operation that draws off the 1/8 cent tax as its only funds other than license fees. Look at the CORP lands, you have to pay every time you pass near one of them.

Does any one not have an air conditioned vehicle personally?

I would rather see MDC have air conditioners than a prisoner have a TV. Or a deadbeat sponging off the government and my tax dollars driving around in an air conditioned new vehicle buying steaks with the food stamps. I think most of us would like to see how our hard earned money is spent. I already voted for where my dollars are to go.

I personally use MDC lands and benefits and I am glad we have it. I use them several times a week. You can use almost all of their services for free. They are a pretty well managed organization but they are at the mercy of the Director. I think the one there now is doing a good job.

[Crippled Caddis]

Interesting thread!

Someone above was griping about not having oversight of the fish and game dept. Please allow me to present a different viewpoint.

Since we live under a Republic of Democratic form of government in the case of our state governments then oversight means that your political representatives would be able to control your fish & game.

I can only cite Arkansas where fisheries and game management is controlled by a board of political appointees. Our Arkansas Fish and Game department is a political football as a result. Fish and game laws are predicated on the whims and desires of those who can sway the appointees as a result. That often means they take orders from those who were instrumental in their appointment. As a result the opinions and advice of the biologists are secondary to politics and influence.

So count yourself among the fortunate that Missouri has an MDC that is as close to politically independent as you can get. You are the envy of those of us to the South who have watched our 1/8 cent tax used to pander to politics.

[brownieman]

I did not discuss the DNR, it is a separate Federal Entity that draws its money from the Federal Gov. I don't think you even get a chance to vote for their money. DNR's funding was cut by the last president and we pay more for it as a result. MDC is a state operation that draws off the 1/8 cent tax as its only funds other than license fees. Look at the CORP lands, you have to pay every time you pass near one of them.

Does any one not have an air conditioned vehicle personally?

I would rather see MDC have air conditioners than a prisoner have a TV. Or a deadbeat sponging off the government and my tax dollars driving around in an air conditioned new vehicle buying steaks with the food stamps. I think most of us would like to see how our hard earned money is spent. I already voted for where my dollars are to go.

I personally use MDC lands and benefits and I am glad we have it. I use them several times a week. You can use almost all of their services for free. They are a pretty well managed organization hut they are at the mercy of the Director. I think the one there now is doing a good job.

I agree totally with the statements you make with the exception of the last paragraph.

With the wealth the dept has...well...IMO they could and should do much more...what really goes on "Behind the Scenes"... IMO the general public has no idea.

The director (as in any upper level position) is only as good as the people whom he surrounds himself with.

Most regulations, laws, projects, etc. are subject to his approval but IMO there are other factions involved...big money factions.

I don't know if it still even exists but there was/is the Conservation Commision.

My understanding is this used to consist of 4 Mo. residents...IMO probably wealthy, influential or both...that were appointed to these positions. Not sure on this one, could be mistaken, but 2 were democrats and 2 were republicans...but mind you non political, lol. Most of the same agendas that are dealt with by the director were subject to their approval or it didn't fly. The commision was/is the only accoutability factor the dept. was/is subject to.

The director acts in the same manner as the president...his actions are based on recommendations from his division chiefs. If this has changed in recent years I beg of any of you to enlighten us all...including me.

The so called "Good Ole Boy Network" IMO is prevalent from small town America to the highest levels of government and exists in most of the business world.

[brownieman]

Interesting thread!

Someone above was griping about not having oversight of the fish and game dept. Please allow me to present a different viewpoint.

Since we live under a Republic of Democratic form of government in the case of our state governments then oversight means that your political representatives would be able to control your fish & game.

I can only cite Arkansas where fisheries and game management is controlled by a board of political appointees. Our Arkansas Fish and Game department is a political football as a result. Fish and game laws are predicated on the whims and desires of those who can sway the appointees as a result. That often means they take orders from those who were instrumental in their appointment. As a result the opinions and advice of the biologists are secondary to politics and influence.

So count yourself among the fortunate that Missouri has an MDC that is as close to politically independent as you can get. You are the envy of those of us to the South who have watched our 1/8 cent tax used to pander to politics.

Very well stated sir...the things you stated are not a consideration most have thought of or realize.

You sir have a good understanding of how things really work...I agree with the things you say 100%...very good insight and thanks for your constructive comments.

[gonefishin]

Mo has a lot going for it in hunting, fishing, nature trails ect. My big gripe is and will remain, what happens to the money? I see them coming up with more and more creative was to get into the pockets of people who use these resources with only very little to show for the bucks. With the kind of money they are earning fishing limits should be increasing not decreasing and license fees for residents should be steady or decreasing not increasing. It is just more and more bucks that disappear and where do they go? And all those bucks in the banks earning interest, don't think for a minute the state or federal governments aren't working hard to figure out a way to grab them up, with the lack of disclosure they may already be lapping them up for all we know.

[Tightline]

Jc,I wouldn't know about the road to hell and don't plan on finding out. My eyes are wide open and what I see is a government entity that does more for me personally, being a sportsman (per tax paid) than any other,from city,county,all the way up.Just stop in Nixa some time and buy something,then figure up how much of that sales tax goes where.

The land that MDC has put out there for all of our use is just incredible.Just go down to Busiek State forest some time,you will see bikers,hikers,bird watchers,gun shooters,horse riders,dog walkers,campers,lunch breakers,waders,photographers,hunters and nature lovers just to name a few.

They aren't perfect,but just tell me one government section that is.

Fish fast and hard.

[Crippled Caddis]

gonefishin wrote:

<And all those bucks in the banks earning interest, don't think for a minute the state or federal governments aren't working hard to figure out a way to grab them up,>

You can make safe bets that you're right about that.

Somehere around here I have a 1936 Readers Digest that has an article in it decrying that legislators were already raiding Social Security monies. Passed in 1935 with the assurance that Social Security funds would NEVER be accessible for any other purpose legislators had already figured out how to raid the fund.

To paraphrase P. J. O'Rourke: "Giving money and power to politicians is like giving liqour and car keys to teenagers."

<"The American Republic will fail when politicians realize that they can bribe the people with their own money." Alexis de Tocqueville>

[jcoberley]

brownieman, I know nothing about them sitting in their truck all day with the air running! I for one have never seen this. Now thth that said I agree with the rest. We can not keep making laws to prevent, or protect or spend, or tax. It has to end sometime. We can not contuniue to keep taxing people and adding usage fee. How can you add a usage fee if it 100% tax funded to build and maintain? Hummm maybe that needs to be placed in the private sector! WOW oh WOW.

Not to get off the subject but to just make my case. Our public scools consume huge amounts of money. Private schools for the most part are about 1/3 the cost per child! Hummm hows that whys that. I meen private schools have taxes from city, county, state and federal! Oh and Gas taxes I mean just think about it. Their buildings and land costs come out of their own pockets. Hummm public schools costs come out of OUR pockets. We the people need to start watch doging and voicing our selfs. We need to start standing up for whats right and stop turning our heads. We need to STOP Being GREEDY and thinking of just our selfs and start thinking of tomorrow and our KIDS and Grandkids..... JMO

[gonefishin]

gonefishin wrote:

<And all those bucks in the banks earning interest, don't think for a minute the state or federal governments aren't working hard to figure out a way to grab them up,>

You can make safe bets that you're right about that.

Somehere around here I have a 1936 Readers Digest that has an article in it decrying that legislators were already raiding Social Security monies. Passed in 1935 with the assurance that Social Security funds would NEVER be accessible for any other purpose legislators had already figured out how to raid the fund.

To paraphrase P. J. O'Rourke: "Giving money and power to politicians is like giving liqour and car keys to teenagers."

<"The American Republic will fail when politicians realize that they can bribe the people with their own money." Alexis de Tocqueville>

No doubt about that CC. They probably had the plans to steal the money made way before the SS act even became law.

Speaking of SS (off subject I know but it does show how these things work)

Subject: Social Security- Interesting facts FYI ? just in case some of you aren't aware of this! Its easy to check out, if you don't believe it.

History of Social Security.

>>>_____________________________________________

Franklin Roosevelt, a democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be completely voluntary,

2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the Program,

3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.

>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to "put away" -- you may be interested in the following:

>>>-------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: Lyndon Johnson and the democratic controlled House and Senate.

>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which Party started taxing Social Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the "tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the US.

>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?

A: Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party.

[Tightline]

I don't know how greed and schools got in to this,no one is going to complain about tax moneys going to schools,but when a certain city builds a multi-million dollar addition to their city hall(thats way behind and over budget) just to keep up with a sister city that has done similar things, thats an abuse of taxes.

30-50 years from now your going to see a drastic change outdoor activities,with all the building and expanding,land being gobbled up every day,the land that the MDC has acquired will be like gold,and will be there for our grand children and great grand children.

And don't forget,they (MDC) have done this with a 1/8 of 1 CENT sales tax.