Building a Plywood Stitch & Glue Canoe

[Crippled Caddis]

<Okay, initial and final stability I know about. But I am confused about the flare. You have to explain that, sounds very interesting. I thought the more it was flared the less final stability it would have.>

Essentially as a highly flared boat heels over further you are, in effect, 'putting more boat in the water'. In other terms the displacement of the boat is becoming greater as it heels. More boat= more stability and tendency to self correct. Highly oversimplified but I hope it's understandable.

<I did purchase the plans for the Pirogue 500. In the plans it said to mount the seats as close to the floor as possible. Won't that increase the stability?>

Yes---lowering the CG increases stability. Sitting almost flat on the floor as in a kayak produces the greatest stability. Rule of thumb= the skinnier the boat the lower the seat.

<I am planning on using the seats from Uncle Johns, they look really nice.>

If you'referring to the slatted seat that sets on the bottom it was designed by Chuck Littleton who owns the 'Southern Paddler' board I've recommended frequently. For a good thread on it see his description at: <http://www.neilbank.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=283> CC

[Flysmallie]

If you'referring to the slatted seat that sets on the bottom it was designed by Chuck Littleton who owns the 'Southern Paddler' board I've recommended frequently. For a good thread on it see his description at: <http://www.neilbank.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=283> CC

Those are the seats. Thanks for the link, some great info there.

Tonight there will be some progress (I hope). I would really like to get all the main panels cut out this weekend. Possible start the glass work as well. Have a big float planned for next weekend, not with this boat obviously, but I still have a lot to get ready. Time to make a huge batch of smallie flies.

[Don]

I've been researching boat building and the whole thing seems very exciting.

The pirogue is described to be effective on still water and mild rivers. Since the bottom is flat, how well would one track and maneuver through a twisted winded set of strong riffles?

Don

[Crippled Caddis]

Don wrote:

<The pirogue is described to be effective on still water and mild rivers. Since the bottom is flat, how well would one track and maneuver through a twisted winded set of strong riffles?>

They track well and manuevering is mostly dependent on the skill of the paddler---about equal to a keelless canoe. But remember they are designed for the swamps so it isn't even close to being a whitewater boat. Any hard chined boat will always hit objects harder than will a hull with more rounded contours which tend to deflect force at a greater tangent.

Fly wrote:

<Tonight there will be some progress (I hope). I would really like to get all the main panels cut out this weekend. Possible start the glass work as well.>

Dang it! You're gonna wind up making me resume work on the one I started a couple of years ago if I'm not careful. CC

[brownieman]

CC,...just thinking now mind you, but...

will not the chined edge be harder to draw sideways due to the drag created by the form itself?

seems to me being keeless in combination with the flat bottom would be subject to wind also, lessened somewhat when loaded heavy

in slow or flat water one will have to keep a paddle in the water much more...will not track very well?.

lighter the load, better the maneuverability in tight water, less draw...heavier the load will track in the flat water better but will take more propulsion?

to me this design is much more applicable to lakes or swamps as you stated...would have to say this boat is a hybrid...pointed bow and stern on the body of a jon??

I don't think this would be my choice of design for river applications but would say is probably quite easier to construst. I would much rather stand up in this boat above any canoe...will be much more stable even if the seats are mounted high...sitting on the bottom being the most stable as you mentioned.

[Crippled Caddis]

brownieman (don't dare abbreviate your user name!) wrote:

<will not the chined edge be harder to draw sideways due to the drag created by the form itself?>

Absolutely! But the drag is little different, in practical terms, to any displacement hull of similar volume. Light loads, inherant to the design, normally dictate that the flat-bottomed hull doesn't set quite so deeply in the water column as would a more sexily curvaceous hull of the same displacement so, in the end, most things come up near even.

<seems to me being keeless in combination with the flat bottom would be subject to wind also, lessened somewhat when loaded heavy>

You would be correct were it not for the low wind profile of the minimal freeboard hullform which doesn't present as much area to be affected as do deeper designs. As for being keelless I can only refer you to your first point above.

<in slow or flat water one will have to keep a paddle in the water much more...will not track very well?.>

In truth I've only owned one pirogue to date, and that when MUCH younger and far less experienced. At the time I was far more impressed with the tenderness (tippiness) than I was with tracking, but I do recall mentally remarking how well it tracked when paddled properly.

<lighter the load, better the maneuverability in tight water, less draw...heavier the load will track in the flat water better but will take more propulsion?>

All true!

<to me this design is much more applicable to lakes or swamps as you stated...would have to say this boat is a hybrid...pointed bow and stern on the body of a jon??>

That's pretty much the way I see it too. Are you familiar with the "Red-horse Runner' gigging boats of the Current and Jacks Fork? In my own mind they are neither more nor less than extended pirogues or as I term them in my own thinking 'plank-built dugouts'. If you aren't familiar with what I'm talking about I'll see if I can impose on Dano to post a pic.

<I don't think this would be my choice of design for river applications but would say is probably quite easier to construst. I would much rather stand up in this boat above any canoe...will be much more stable even if the seats are mounted high...sitting on the bottom being the most stable as you mentioned.>

Nor can I truly think of them as a craft for swift water even though they are surprisingly agile for the type of hullform. Even though the 'Red-horse Runners' were designed for rivers such as the Jacks Fork and Current I highly suspect that their main role was on the long 'holes' that were both relatively free of the effects of swift currents and, resultingly, more conducive to gigging. I equally suspect that manuevering them through shoals was fraught with hazard and, as a consequence, they were more often lined than navigated. In his 1818-1819 report of his survey of the mineral deposits of the region (first published work of any sort on the area) Henry Schoolcraft recounted broaching the 20-24' dugout, for which he and his companion had traded their horses in order to facilitate getting to Poke Bayou, (the current Batesville, Ar) on a boulder in Bull Shoals which they had been warned to not attempt under any circumstance. Youthful 'Daredevilishness' and a certain urgency to reach their destination caused them to try their hand at Bull Shoals. Apparently only Gods' amusement at their foolishness spared them and allowed them to free their craft without suffering terminal hypothermia in the January chill of the White River.

The Ozarks has its' own rich boating heritage that I find an on-going interest and subject of research. I've often thought that the jonboat could well have been a logical developement of the 'Red-horse Runner' altered to carry a greater load with more stability, but the jonboat form is that of the scow, an answer to a neccessity almost as old as the history of men and boats. CC

[Flysmallie]

Day 1

Well actually it was night. Started working at 10:50pm and just finished at 11:45pm. I did manage to get all the measurements added for the bottom and sides. Only thing that kept me from working longer was that I don't have a "curve maker". The plans suggest using pvc pipe or wood trim that will allow a natural curve along the measurement points. So off I go in the morning to Lowe's or maybe Dad's garage. I know he has something that will work in there.

Gotta get more beer too. The plans said nothing about the amount of beer this was going to take.

[Crippled Caddis]

Fs wrote:

<Gotta get more beer too. The plans said nothing about the amount of beer this was going to take.>

Sorry! I should have pointed that out earlier. ) But look on the bright side----at the scrap price of clean aluminum cans you can defray a large part of the material cost by recycling. Heck---it's virtually patriotic! More boatbuilding=more recycling. One of those all-too-rare 'win/win' deals! ;o) CC

[Flysmallie]

Well now you have me feeling all guilty CC. All I have been buying is bottles. But I promise to do my patriotic duties and purchase the canned beer next run.

Been out shopping this morning, mostly in Dad's garage, and I think I have enough supplies to make a big mess tonight. I do have a question that popped up while I was stealing every clamp that my Dad had in his garage. If you remove a c-clamp from a shelf and a bunch of stuff falls, do you think that clamp was in use?? Well I took it anyway!!

Anybody out there know where to buy some fiberglass cloth. I would like a to find some 4 to 6 ounce cloth 60" wide by 10 yards. Also does is there anyone around that carries wood flour? I can order this online, but would like to get local if I could.

[WebFreeman]

Flysmallie, I can't find the page now, but someone put a keel on one w/ a 1x1 piece of round trim. He said he stopped it about a foot short of the bow and stern and it really helped w/ tracking. When I find it again I'll copy the link.