Sobriety checkpoint....and shakedown....

[Danoinark]

"On the books" yeah, court costs and the resultant fine is piddly...but Dano.... lawyers buy off prosecutors, and they buy them off with money from the accused.

My friend fishinwrench, maybe I am naive, but after 25 years in the justice system I can truly say I have never seen an offer, or have never offered anyone, money or other gratuties to "get anyone off" of a crime or even a reduction of sentence.

And the stuff they confiscate....a "little bit" goes for evidence, the rest (DRUGS, GUNS, ALCOHOL, ECT.) gets liquidated back into cash.

So it's no "suprise" to me Dano, when a person gets busted with a pound of marijuana...and a lawyer gets the charge reduced to "under 35 grams", where the rest of the pound goes.

Again, any case that did not have its full compliment of evidence at trial would certainly be under scrutiny. Is evidence ever lost? Of course and its also under scrutiny. The reason many people plead down a case from your number of 35 grams is because of a variety of reasons just a few being first time offenders who deserve a break, and the fact attorneys on both sides avoid tying up the Courts for a given period thereby costing the taxpayers more than the fines would generate

and have pharmacueticals in their possesion that aren't prescribed to them. Know why ? not much money in it.

Au contraire, It is a felony to possess pharmaceuticals that don't belong to you especially if they are class narcotics. Thereby this would actually generate more revenue in fines and court costs than the misdemeanors on the river you speak.

Dano

[brownieman]

"On the books" yeah, court costs and the resultant fine is piddly...but Dano.... lawyers buy off prosecutors, and they buy them off with money from the accused.

And the stuff they confiscate....a "little bit" goes for evidence, the rest (DRUGS, GUNS, ALCOHOL, ECT.) gets liquidated back into cash.

So it's no "suprise" to me Dano, when a person gets busted with a pound of marijuana...and a lawyer gets the charge reduced to "under 35 grams", where the rest of the pound goes. Lets all be law abiding citizens, and raise our kids likewise...but by no means allow yourself to be nieve, upholding the "law" is big business...and only a sliver goes on the books.

You'll seldom see "a sting" at a bingo hall parking lot, targeting people driving (at night) who can't even come close to passing an eye exam.....and have pharmacueticals in their possesion that aren't prescribed to them. Know why ? not much money in it. there's no market for old pharmacueticals, and elderly ladies wouldn't bother to fight the charges...they'd just pay the piddly fine.

Gonefishin', Yes, show some control of your actions, but if your actions are not bothering anyone or anything...you should be treated kindly, your time, YOUR PRIVACY and your property respected, and you should be left alone. That's my only point Sir. They were not ONLY shaking down wild crazy drunken idiots....it was a "checkpoint". Similar to a Mexican patrol checkpoint...and it ain't cool. That's all I'm sayin'.

Wrench, imo your not refering to 'The Good Ole Boy Network' are ya...tell me it aint so, lol.

IMO kickbacks and under the table money...well...I aint even goin go their my friend.

I'll get to ramblin and end up boring myseld again.

IMO we have become a greed driven society.

Think I'll bore you all anyway...The following lines come from an e-mail sent to me named "Obituary of Common Sense"

"Commonn Sense lived by simple sound financial policies ( don't spend more than you earn ), reliable paretiing strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids ), and it's ok to come in second.

" In recent decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing legislation.

"He watched in pain as good people bacame ruled by self-seeking lawyers and enlightened auditors.

" Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contriband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional sports."

"Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibilty; and his son reason: His three brotheres survive him: Rights, Tolerance and Whiner."

" Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone."

...seems this is how it has become to me...jmho

[fishinwrench]

"Under scrutiny"...That's a playful term.

Is it possible that you served as a town Judge only, and not a prosecutor, or attorney first ?

If you spent 25 years in county justice, and you remain unaware of anything like that....then I wanna move my family to your county. Crooked law is rampant in alot of county's....just figured it was that way everywhere, to a degree.

A small town judge might remain in the dark, and be content with the mushroom treatment.....but to deny any knowledge of such goings-on would require anyone else on the docket to be completely blind....or scared.

BTW, What I meant about the pharmacueticals was...there is no "market" for them...KWIM?

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument here...I carry a chip on my shoulder concerning this type of thing because of a past experience that cost me dearly. I got an education that I never even wanted, and what I learned created a huge amount of distrust in the justice system, on all levels.

I like you Dano, and respect you because we share a common interest. I don't think we need to further this debate, especially not on here, so I'll make this my last entry concerning it.

I just know that this "sting" they did on the river was "not to my liking". And although I certainly don't condone drugs and drunks on the rivers...there should be some descretion in the way these laws, and many others are "enforced". Setting up a checkpoint on a gravel bar around a bend, and shaking down every canoe that passes...doesn't sit well with me because I know darn well why they did it. Sorry.

Think they'll do it again during gigging season ? Bet not.

Peace, Wrench

[Danoinark]

Fishinwrench said:

Is it possible that you served as a town Judge only, and not a prosecutor, or attorney first ?

Fishin, I have never served as a sitting judge nor a prosecutor. My role has been as a Court Services Administrator, sort of a right hand man to sitting judges, responsible for all aspect of the Court. I have worked for several in my career, all admirable men.

If you spent 25 years in county justice, and you remain unaware of anything like that....then I wanna move my family to your county. Crooked law is rampant in alot of county's....just figured it was that way everywhere, to a degree.

Let me say this, I have been lucky. I agree there are crooked judges, crooked cops, crooked prosecutors and crooked attorneys just like there are crooked plumbers, crooked business owners and crooked housewives. Its a given, but those that are sworn by law to uphold the laws, such as judges, attorneys, prosecutors and cops should be held at higher standards than others.

A small town judge might remain in the dark, and be content with the mushroom treatment.....but to deny any knowledge of such goings-on would require anyone else on the docket to be completely blind....or scared.

BTW, What I meant about the pharmacueticals was...there is no "market" for them...KWIM?

and with that I certainly agree.

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument here...I carry a chip on my shoulder concerning this type of thing because of a past experience that cost me dearly. I got an education that I never even wanted, and what I learned created a huge amount of distrust in the justice system, on all levels.

For some reason I kind of figured that. I am sorry you obvisouly didn't get a fair shake it seems and the system was unkind. That is a travesty because the system is suppose to work for you as well as against you.

I like you Dano, and respect you because we share a common interest. I don't think we need to further this debate, especially not on here, so I'll make this my last entry concerning it.

Ditto bud.

I just know that this "sting" they did on the river was "not to my liking". And although I certainly don't condone drugs and drunks on the rivers...there should be some descretion in the way these laws, and many others are "enforced". Setting up a checkpoint on a gravel bar around a bend, and shaking down every canoe that passes...doesn't sit well with me because I know darn well why they did it. Sorry.

I wouldn't of liked it either and sometimes I feel there are too many laws to be enforced but its the only system we have and quite frankly it does work.

Think they'll do it again during gigging season ? Bet not.

Nope, not in a heart beat.

Peace, Wrench

[gonefishin]

I agree gf,

IMO, the unruley ones, the drunken obnoxious, one's who are urinating and sexing it up in front of your kids...go for them but leave those who 'are' respectful alone.

Exactly. No need to harass the people who act respectfully while in public view.

[hornyheadchub]

If having the enforcement on the water keeps the idiots home, then so be it. I am glad they are there doing the job they are being paid to do.

Maybe, after seven years of keeping my family off the water, I will be able to take them out again and enjoy what we like to do as a family. I really don't feel the need to explain to my kids why people are having sex in public, or why they are cussing us out as we paddle by. Or why they are fighting, or why they using the bathroom where everyone can see them. And then there is the drinking, and drugs. For Pete's sake, if they want to break the law, at least don't do it where everyone can see them doing it.

Huh, wishful thinking. As it was said before, easy pickens is the case at least in my experience on the Niangua. Allow me to elaborate.

c. 2001, I went to the Niangua on a gorgeous weekday afternoon with a female friend. We put in at NRO, nothing was said by the outfitter about a 'check point' on the river.

Now let me stop here for a moment and point out that this checkpoint consists of one or two agents located atop a bluff or hill that overlooks the river, fully camoflaged, and with spotting scopes and radios. When they spot "illegal activity" they radio descriptions etc. downstream to a group of agents who are ready to arrest you.

I was in the bow, she in the stern. I brought two fly rods, one with a sink tip the other without. We had a drybag, and a cooler. No beer or booze. I was legal as far as permits, and trout stamp. She was not fishing, just paddling, smoking some hand-rolled cigarettes (nothing more) and enjoying the day.

All the while there where groups of idiots in aluminum boats screaming, urinating and deficating where they pleased, littering their cheap beer cans, throwing cigarette butts in the river; and if one did tip over, do you think they picked up the trash they spilled? Hell no.

When we approached the checkpoint I was actually stoked to see some MDC agents and Water Patrol around hoping they would do something about the idiocy. I was pleased to have an MDC agent check my ID & Fishing permit, and my cooler for game (there was none). I thought we were about to head on down the river when a cocky little Dallas County deputy ran, yes ran out to the boat and began to try to (unlawfully) search my drybag and try to pat me down.

Now, I grew up with an extended family full of law enforcement officials, from game wardens to HI-PO's, to USDA law enforcement to City cops, to Prosecutors so I'm no idiot about interactions with law enforcement. The best advice any of them EVER gave me was that you should NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a law enforcement professional, EVER. Simply put, even the most virtuous of men falter under the weight of such power.

So I told him to cease and desist at once. I asked him for his probable cause and explained to him that I know my rights as a law-abiding citizen. All the while the MDC agent stood as witness with more than a little embarrasment on his face. He admitted he had no probable cause, and I explained to him that if he had simply asked, I would have been glad to permit him to search. As a gesture of my honesty, I opened the bag, and dumped the contents in the hull of the boat. Unsatisfied, he approached my female friend and began to physically pat her down. I was beside myself; this is ILLEGAL SEARCH no two-ways about it. He ordered her to empty her pockets under threat of arrest. She complied out of fear (by definition a terrorist threat toward her) and he found no contraband of any sort.

The goups of idiots I mentioned before were lazily floating past some were literally so drunk that they couldn't even sit in their canoe seat and rather chose to sit in the hull of the boat so as not to fall out. Was a single boat of these idiots stopped? Hell no. Does the Dallas Co. Sherrif's Dept. care that they'll be behind the wheel of a car in an hour or two? Obviously not.

I did report the behavior of the Deputy. I'm sure it fell on deaf ears.

I know a defense atty in Colubia, MO who handles HUNDREDS of cases from this operation every year. His advice is to avoid Dallas County at all costs. In his words, perhaps the most corrupt county in the state.

I'm sure I'll be crucified for what I'm about to say next, but mark these words, it will come to pass in my lifetime:

Missouri will be forced to require daily permits, applied for in advance, to float the most popular rivers in the state such as the Niangua, the Spring (SEMO), the Current, the Jacks Fork, etc. The nuber of boats/day will be limited to a specific number, and accountability will be beholden to all of those who choose to enjoy our streams in this way. We will follow in the footsteps of those states, many considered to be out West, who have done the same. This will require an initial investment on the part of MDC (or some other agency), as well as USFW, MODNR, etc. It will happen, start getting used to the idea now. And rather than resisting it kicking and screaming, look at the states who do this and let's try to take the best of each of them to make ours the best and fairest.

I'd love to see some analysis of daily Nitrogenous waste and Human cloiform counts for the floating season on these rivers. I guarantee you'd think twice before swimming, or even cutting your line with your teeth given this info.

I'd love to see the kind of enforcement you find along the Buffalo, where a six-pack of glass bottles will cost you $$+250, and not strapping your cooler and gear down will cost the same.

The fact is that if some people will not take resposibility for their own actions and consider those who will come after them when using a natural resource, those responsibilities will be forced on us all by a lawmaker simply because a small portion of people ruin it.

Have any of you ever confronted the group of belligerent Frat boys and Sorrority girls who make the experience on the river less enjoyable? I have, at the risk of my own safety I admit. If nothing else, write doen a boat reg # ot outfitter name and a description and report deplorable behavior to the Outfitter. Let'em know you are paying atttention.

Rant over.

[Dave Cook]

HHC you have every right to be outraged by the deputy's behavior. I appreciate you sharing your experience.

There is two page story in the Sunday KC Star today http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/199839.html ,starting on the front page, about the crowds and bad behavior on the Niangua River. A few years ago, I've walked into the access at Barclay to fish and had seen several MDC vehicles parked there on one of their checkpoint days and that was in the early spring. I have the upmost respect for MDC agents and the Water Patrol because I know they receive extensive training. But after seeing snipers along the river bank, what used to be one of my favorite fishing spots, only gets visited by me anymore during the off, off, off season. That would be winter. I am not judging the state agents, I am judging the situation, and I just don't need that on any fishing trip.

[brownieman]

HHChub,

IMO you just gave a perfect example of the "Good Ole Boy" network at it's finest...that's a classic my friend!

I hate to agree with you but I do...it's a reality that speaks for itself.

IMO that's the direction we are headed...I just don't care for it much myself.

[fishinwrench]

Now, I grew up with an extended family full of law enforcement officials, from game wardens to HI-PO's, to USDA law enforcement to City cops, to Prosecutors so I'm no idiot about interactions with law enforcement. The best advice any of them EVER gave me was that you should NEVER, EVER, EVER trust a law enforcement professional, EVER. Simply put, even the most virtuous of men falter under the weight of such power

Excellent advise.

Dave, I doubt that it was MDC or WP agents packing assault rifles....they were most likely county deputys.

[hornyheadchub]

Allow me to pass on a bit of advice that my grandfather (multiple law enforcent agencies over 50+ years) gave me that I fee everyone should know, not just for their own benefit, but perhaps more for the benefit patrols our highways, byways, and city streets.

If you ever (most of us have) see the flashing lights in your mirrors the following are a few things that will go a long, long, long way in your favor when you have the distinctly unpleasurable conversation with Johhny Law.

First, consider the geography of where you are with respect to hills and curves. Don't just pull over immediately and place the officer in a bad situation on the backside of a hill or on a blind curve. Instead, engage your turn signal to indicate that you intend to comply, but wait until you are able to pull over in a place that is safe for Johnny to:

A) Exit his vehicle.

B} Approach yours.

C) And allows his lights to be seen by traffic approcaching from both directions. Even if this means driving as much as a mile. Trust me, he/she'll prefer it.

Second, If you have tinted windows, ROLL THEM DOWN. This decreases your chances of getting shot (seriously).

Third, park your car and turn the ignition OFF. He/she will see your actions and be more comfortable with approaching a stranger (you).

Fourth, and perhaps the most important, put your hands directly on top of the steering wheel. This way they can both be seen from the vantage of the cop while he/she waits for the requisite radio communications to be completed. Don't reach for your wallet, or fish around in your console or glove box for insurance, registration, etc.because this looks SUSPICOUS. How does he know you aren't trying to hide something or that you aren't reaching for a pistol??

If it is dark, turn on your dome light so that the interior of your car is illuminated enough for the cop to see you.

Above ALL ELSE be respectful and curteous. Such behavior goes a long way these days.

When all is said and done you'll come out better if you remember this advice.

In the words of Big Smith: I tell him I don't wish him harm,

But I sure don't wish him well.