C&R yearly permit for missouri trout parks

[gonefishin]

Why would they stock any trout? With C&R there is no loss of life. In a perfect world, we could say that 7500 were saved. That is until Bubba and Joe Bob show up after spending their $20.

Now if the fee were like GF stated, well that would make much more since to me, but then who the heck would buy one? Then again though, that would lessen the Bubba factor.

I have argued for years that there should be an annual licence. The thing is it seems that most people don't want to pay for it. In order for it to work it has to be of value to both paties the fisherman and the parks. To me it seems reasonable that an avid park fisherperson would be money ahead if they purchased an annual permit as I posted. I would certainly purchase one; if for no other reason than to bypass the daily permit purchasing lines. On the other hand they have to be expensive enough to help eliminate bubba taking advantage of the privlidge. To me having an annual park permit for the proper fee makes good sense. $20 bucks for an annual permit?? Who are we kidding, MDC just sees that as someone who wants to get out of paying for the privlidge of fishing the parks.

It is a common misconception that C&R causes no loss of life. It is a known fact that the stress of being caught, handled or hooked too deep causes a certain percentage of fish to die. If we assume a 3% loss with a avid fisherperson who catches 50 fish per outing, fishes 2 days per week, 9 months of the year then the net loss of life for the season is about 110 fish. Hence stocking would have to continue even if we went to total C&R fishing.

[AZ_Trout]

My 2 cents

I live in Arizona, we get back to Taney and RRSP at the end of OCT for our timeshare in Branson. I'd pay $10-15 for a monthly C&R tag and I might get 2-3 trips to RRSP while I'm back in MO. MONTHLY Tags could be colored coded. Blaze orange for Oct. Neon Green for May- whatever. If you saw Bubba with a blaze orange tag and fish - then it would be very evident he was in violation. Make the tag just like the daily tag but have OCT 2007 -then I'd need a nice plastic holder and if I lost the tag --well I'm a big boy, I buy another.

Just my thoughts

I'd like to see the money go to stocking and improvements.

Rod

[brownieman]

Still good points from all...color coding, being visible, expenditures, % of loss for C&R all make good sense to me...every aspect has to be considered.

IMO the bottom line is most laws are broken to a degree. The system is overloaded with laws that are hard to enforce whether it be lack of personel or other determining factors.

If all were good ethical outdoorsman it would help tremendously...NOT !

As CB implied...a 'perfect world', yeah...would be nice but it's not a reality. Simply put, there will always be bad apples and most laws and guidlines are bent or broken.

If the conception of an idea such as this were offered as an option it would be liable to abuse as are they all.

Possibly... if a percentage of the monies generated could be ear marked for use of additional enforcement it could be more attractive but could be frowned on by some. Those that have had a bad experience with law enforcement or use unethical methods would likely be the frowners...seems to me others wouldn't care.

Laws are of no value if not enforced...too many laws, probably, too many guys looking over their shoulders, no doubt...goals, objectives and desirable results would be the same for all ethical fisherpeople and the people whom enforce them.

IMO it all boils down to ethics, how open to abuse it is and how to avoid the associated problems which would go with the turf...that's the only given and everyone will never be happy, never have, never will.

Seems to me it could be an option but will be open to abuse this being the case in most laws already on the books. 'A Perfect World'...would be nice but it's just not a reality these days. JMHO

bm

[McCloud]

It is a common misconception that C&R causes no loss of life. It is a known fact that the stress of being caught, handled or hooked too deep causes a certain percentage of fish to die. If we assume a 3% loss with a avid fisherperson who catches 50 fish per outing, fishes 2 days per week, 9 months of the year then the net loss of life for the season is about 110 fish. Hence stocking would have to continue even if we went to total C&R fishing.

Gonefshn,

That seems to be a lot fish-thanks for the info.

[jdmidwest]

C&R in a park without stocking would be worthless, why fish a stream with no fish? The last trip to Montauk, the Fly only area was loaded with fish on Sunday morning and by Tuesday afternoon was picked pretty clean. I like to fish, but I like to catch more..

They stock 2.5 fish per estimated tag to be sold. Most everyone who purchases a tag will keep at least one limit of 4 per day at Montauk and Bennett in my experiences, you see everyone carrying a stringer of fish. They will change clothes, hats, fish different areas to catch additional limits thru the day. If you have ever fished the parks in the middle of the week, you know how low the fish numbers can get. If it were C&R, MDC would have to start feeding the fish during the week also like they do during the normal winter C&R season. The streams in the parks do not have enough food sources to feed the amt of fish in the stream.

If $3 is too much money, each park has sections of trout waters below them that offer better fishing, better fish, better scenery, and less crowds. Best of all, its free fishing, you only need a fishing license to fish it. You only need a trout stamp if you want to retain trout on these waters. Arkansas charges whether you catch and release or keep on most of their streams, the same as they charge if you retain fish. The only places I retain fish is in the put-and-take areas like the trout parks and in Ark. I only keep the rainbows. My family enjoys trout and I like fresh trout while camping. But, I only retain what I am going to eat fresh, frozen trout looses flavor too fast.

By the way, the coffee at Bennett is supplied by the concessionaire that owns the store, not the MDC. I think there is a can for donations there also.

[gonefishin]

Gonefshn,

That seems to be a lot fish-thanks for the info.

McCloud,

It does seem a lot of fish. I dont know the actual numbers and dont know anyone who does because there are so many variables, time of year, DO levels, ambient temps, Water Temps, how long the fight lasts, how the fish is handled, how fast the fish is returned to the water, species of fish ect ect ect. From what I have read the numbers are somewhere between 1.5% and 40% loss depending on the variables. I figure the loss to trout is relatively low so I just pulled 3% out as an average. It really is just a guess on my part but the fact is there is loss of life with C&R fishing and the more fish a person catches and handles in a year the larger the number of dead fish is going to be.

Consider this:

A catch and keep fisherman who goes to a park 10 times per year and catches his/her limit every time will kill 40 fish in a season.

A C&R fisherman who goes 10 times and catches 50 fish (seems to be a popular number) to the outing at a 3% loss will kill 15 fish in a season. If as some here on OAF say, they catch a couple of hundred fish each outing they are going to kill about 60 fish per year or more than the person who keeps everything caught. Then one has to ask, what about the people who fish every day?? How many do they kill in a year?

[Rusty]

Sorry, haven't had my morning coffee yet.

[Rusty]

McCloud,

It does seem a lot of fish. I dont know the actual numbers and dont know anyone who does because there are so many variables, time of year, DO levels, ambient temps, Water Temps, how long the fight lasts, how the fish is handled, how fast the fish is returned to the water, species of fish ect ect ect. From what I have read the numbers are somewhere between 1.5% and 40% loss depending on the variables. I figure the loss to trout is relatively low so I just pulled 3% out as an average. It really is just a guess on my part but the fact is there is loss of life with C&R fishing and the more fish a person catches and handles in a year the larger the number of dead fish is going to be.

Consider this:

A catch and keep fisherman who goes to a park 10 times per year and catches his/her limit every time will kill 40 fish in a season.

A C&R fisherman who goes 10 times and catches 50 fish (seems to be a popular number) to the outing at a 3% loss will kill 15 fish in a season. If as some here on OAF say, they catch a couple of hundred fish each outing they are going to kill about 60 fish per year or more than the person who keeps everything caught. Then one has to ask, what about the people who fish every day?? How many do they kill in a year?

I can appreciate your passion for this however, your numbers are purely hypothetical. I am by no means claiming to be perfect, but I can disprove your numbers just by my own experience of catch and release. After trout fishing for three years with a fly rod, I can honestly say that I have only lost one fish to death, after release, that I know of. (EDITED TO MAKE chief FEEL BETTER.) PURELY HYPOTHETICAL. And it was a small fish that didn't look all that healthy to begin with. Granted, not every person who C&R has the same outcome. I just wanted to add this so others know that not all C&R people, kill the numbers of fish that you are claiming.

[Chief Grey Bear]

After trout fishing for three years with a fly rod, I can honestly say that I have only lost one fish to death, after release, that I know of.

I would say with the last four words of your quote above, yours is just as hypothetical.

[Rusty]

Your right chief, does that make you feel better? I was there to see that one die. Nothing hypothetical about that.