If You Could Interject Any Species

[Danoinark]

I would venture to guess that right now there are more fish than typical because of the high water.

Not as many bank fishers or waders and fishing is tough for most on high flow. When the water gets back to normal I think you will see an abundance of fish. The reason they are so healthy right now is because of the enormous amount of food sources and nutrients. I haven't checked but I bet the DO is high too.

Dano

[Phil Lilley]

John- that's the brown caught in July. The current record was caught in October the same year and yes they were close to the same weight. Micheal knows the guy who has the current state record and that's the mold he has.

Dano- you're right. We caught rainbows this evening that were 13-15 inches and fought hard. These are rainbows that you usually see above Fall Creek. But no one is fishing this area- we're not sending anyone up there cause it's been tough. But not everyone can jig fish like Vince.

[drew03cmc]

Did you really read Phil's comment??? He talked about the lower lake rainbows being mostly put and take but he prefaced that with "below Fall Creek". Sorry but the upper lake where the slot is in effect is not primarily put and take. Also I'm sure he (Phil) is right that in the lower lake the average bow lasts about 30 days - But that doesn't mean there are not bigger rainbows down there. I would bet there are.

And if the lake is truly overstocked and not supporting the bows and browns foodwise - why are both the rainbows and browns always so fat and healthy? Even in the lower lake where the average fish is caught in about a month - a month is plenty of time for such a fish to become emaciated. But if you see that at all it is rare.

Sorry - I realize "put and take" and "put and grow" are just semantics. And that there can be a fine line between the 2 as Trav pointed out. But I really don't like to see Taney run down and dismissed as second rate. It's not. Could it be better? Probably. But it's pretty great as is.

Greg

I did read Phil's comment, and yes, where do MOST of the stocked trout go? I would venture to say below Fall Creek. The slot limit, all it is doing is increasing numbers of 12-20" trout, which are not protected throughout the lake. Say for instance, that Joe Q catches said trout that measures 14.5" above Fall Creek. The fish, tucks its tail between its legs, and runs downlake and gets caught on powerbait, kept and grilled. I do not doubt the slot works for increasing midsized (at least in Taney, a 20" rainbow most other places is a trophy) trout.

Ok, what I am suggesting is that in the lake's heyday, it produced many more LARGE trout, albeit rainbows, before MDC got this hair in their rear to stock brown trout.

The lake is still a great fishery, but could be a lot better, IMO. I am sorry to have hurt anyone's feelings, which I seem to have, but the purposes of this thread were to explore what could be, and what we would like to see. If you do not want to see any changes, don't read the thread, it is that simple. However, most people on here are taking this personally, and if there is anyone who should, it is Phil and Trav, as one lives on the lake, the other makes his living off the lake.

[Trav]

Drew,

If anyone is so thin skinned that they cant take some criticism, constructive or not, then they really have no place on message boards that discuss contraversy.

I find myself apologizing or justifying my opinions more than I like, but I do it just to be civil or to keep it civil.

Like Greg and Phil points out, it will be very boring if we all agreed on everything.

I dont take anything personal for it doesnt really effect me. Expressing ideals is very harmless for you can just ignore them if they dont match your own.

I started this topic months ago. Mainly to express that, in my opinion, Taney could support more species. Species that once stocked wouldnt need stocking management. Not to replace the trout.

Through out the debate I have come to the conclusion, after much research and yes, this debate, that Taney probably will not be able to self sustain anymore fish than it already does. I now believe that there are probably only two species, that isnt already in the lake, that could self sustain. Yellow perch, not exactly a trophy type, and the channel cat. And channels will probably have a limited population due to the lack of spawning grounds. Im confident that pike and musky would self sustain but not without harming the current population of self sustaining species. So not an option. I also feel the lake is too small for Stripers even if there wasnt a risk of losing our beloved trout.

That puts the lake back into its fish tank status. I am confident that the lake would be able to support more put and Grow species. Mainly speaking of walleye and smallies. That brings up the issue of money management and the feasibilty of spreading the resources of MDC. It could be done. Although justifying it might be a hurdle.

The theory of "if it isnt broke..." holds true. I still believe that you can make a good thing better though. My investment in this ideal is to only give the lake that has the largest diversity already, a bit more to brag about.

Dano is right. This high water, wich I predict will continue well into fall, will make the winter fishing phenominal. Wich to me will be of even better benifit for us locals because the tourists wont be grilling all our trout. Here on the lower, I like the high water. The fishing down here is super right now. Keep it running!

As far as the slot limit just improving the numbers of medium sized fish....I have to agree.

It protects a brood stock that dont spawn anyway. I say we need to reverse the slot. Say that you can only keep Rainbows between 12 and 20 inches. It will give the rainbows more adjustment time instead of only giving them the average 30 days. Will make a more savvy population.

Do a modification like the Brown rule that only one rainbow over 20 can be kept. Of course, I believe that there should be more stocking of Browns. Boost that 15 thousand a year to maybe 45 thousand. If you cant keep a bow until it is 12 inches the additional Browns will have plenty of food. And push the size limit of browns to 30 inches. You want to talk about bigger fish, that will do it!

Im not a biologist, but I can say with confidence that if you protect the bigger fish more, then you have a better angling experiance.

Am I wrong? Would you rather catch 1 big fish or 4 little ones?

Since we know that they wont stock walleye and smallies as Put and Grow, then we can manage our trout to the effect that it will give us bigger fish!

That should satisfy everyone!

[FRENZEL]

Here is 18.5 inches of the healthiest smallie I've ever seen. More of these please.! Fat as any of the spawners up on the rock this year. Fat and HEALTHY! Still swimming too.

[Trav]

Thats what I am talking about Frenz!

[Phil Lilley]

Say that you can only keep Rainbows between 12 and 20 inches. It will give the rainbows more adjustment time instead of only giving them the average 30 days.

Don't understand this at all. First, rainbows stocked average 11.5 inches now. That means alot of rainbows are already over 12 inches. It would give them a chance to "get smart" and not be caught? Hum... I doubt it. Gulp is just too yummy.

The slot is designed to grow fish to "trophy size". Not trophy size is defined differently to each individual. To some it's 15 inches. To others it's 20 inches. MDC thinks it closer to 15 inches and if you go out west I think you'll find a 15 inch rainbow would be coveted. Here- we're spoiled having all the great trout fisheries.

Before the trophy area, if we caught a 15 inch rainbow we'd be ecstatic. Eighteen inch- oh my! Now it's common, very common. Plus it's the intent of MDC to see these "slotted" rainbow to migrate downstream for all anglers to enjoy, not just the "blue blood elitists" they call us that only fly or lure fish. That's what they called us when we tried to pass the new regs in 1995.

OK- to tackle adding fish to the pond. Consider: catfish eat what- shad, worms washed in after a rain, blue gill and other forage fish. Is there a demand on these food items already? Is there an abundance of these food items or is the lake "stable"? Carrying Capacity is the phase MDC uses to define the used of land and/or lakes and their resources to provide sustenance for wildlife and fishes. Right now, is Taneycomo "balanced" where all species of fish are eating well and not starving? Is there an abundance? Is there a surplus? To say there's room for more fish means there's an abundance of that food for the species you're putting in, namely catfish.

If you put catfish in the lake, it will put more of a demand on their food. Resident fish will have less. Catfish compete with bass I'd think. So this action will affect bass somewhat in a negative way- right? Same with yellow perch, walleye, even stripers. They will all compete for the food that's in the lake. You're not adding to the food base, you're adding predators and thinning the food base.

This is what a fisheries biologist would look at when considering a change in how a lake is managed.

Our trout are somewhat different though. Because this is a put and take fishery, the food base isn't considered as strongly as it would if you were stocking a lake, say for, catch and release. You'd have to stop or slow stocking at some point because you'd starve your trout. MDC was fearful back prior to the implementation of the trophy area because they didn't know for sure what the trout would do exactly above Fall Creek. Would they all heard up there and starve because of the lack of food? They didn't think so but this hadn't been done before so there were questions. They felt like the trout, if there wasn't enough food for the masses, would migrate down till they found food, OR get caught. And fortunately, they were correct. They didn't all go to the dam but are dispersed throughout the lake for all to catch and enjoy.

The trophy area and slot has worked. Can there be changes? Sure. I've thrown out there ideas- change the slot to 13-24 inches on rainbows if you want larger rainbows. Create a slot below Fall Creek. MDC had a campaign back in the 80's where it was suggested that anglers released 12 to 16 inch trout (I think that was the numbers) voluntarily. It worked I think for a while but fizzled out about 1990. But if MDC didn't do anything, I'd be just a happy with what they've done so far.

Looking at the numbers, there's no way to deny that for what it is, Taney is a premier trout fishery. I'd love to see more wading areas, riffles and pools but that's just not the character of a tailwater like ours.

In saying all that, this high water event is going to beef up that claim... wait till the water goes down! There's a bunch of new, BIG trout out there waiting to be challenged.

[Micheal Kyle]

Taxidermist

I do not even have to look at the pic's I know what two pics you are going to show. One of a guy and a kid holding what looks to be a dead fish, that they caught and froze because they did not know what they had. Then one of a guy holding a fish in the hatchery, that he caught in the rebar hole on a fly rod. You need to figure out for yourself which one it is.

I'm sure your buddy picked up a fish out of Florida. I for one would not buy a fish to hang on my wall that I did not catch. The reason I have the fish on my wall is that we are a fly shop and a very good friend of myself and my father caught the fish.

We decided that in a small mom and pop fly shop that the fish would be appreciated more than letting go to a big box store. Plus the big box store only wanted to mount a fish that they already had. They said that no one would know.

We do have the original mold and we are not going to let go of it or any fish out of it. As stated in my previous post We want to protect my friend and his accomplishment.

It is the current state record and is the current I.G.F.A 3kg World Line Class Record.

I wish you the best with your ventures.

Michael

[drew03cmc]

Phil, raising the slot would do wonders for larger fish! However, I am anxious to hear about the size of the fish when the water goes down. That might make me want to load up and drive down there....maybe .

[Trav]

Phil is right.

I know I am a bit spoiled.

I am a trophy hunter. And a self admitted greedy one at that. Even though I release all the fish I catch, I cant help but to brainstorm for ideas to get even more of the big fish in the lake. I dont even get excited anymore about a rainbow unless its over 3 pounds. And browns have to be in the 5 pound range before I even raise an eyebrow.

Saying that just goes to prove that Taney has excellent fish compared to other trout populations. But I wouldnt go so far as to say it is the best. Thats what I want to be able to say. I have heard rumors that some of those California lakes have more 3 pound rainbows per square mile than anyplace in the world. Thats what I want to be able to say for Taney.

I thought they stocked 10 inch bows? Now I have caught alot of bows that were 10 inches. Just last month to be precise. How did those get in the lake?

Anyway, Maybe a larger slot is the answer, but I know there has to be a way to getting more large fish in the lake. And I am positive that protecting them is the key to maintaining them. We cant grow them to trophy sizes and let the tourists take them home. We need them to stay in the water.