Whose Land Is It?

[OzarkKid07]

For those of you who are reading this, please bear in mind that I am not a professional writer or, for that matter, even an amateur writer. This is not meant to be an editorial or an article. It is not about an idea that might work. It is not about something I might try. It is an invitation to you to become a part of something that is currently happening and that can NOT be stopped. It is an introduction to men and women who are concerned about our nation's status and direction and want to see change, but do not see a means of causing that change.

I am a part of a large group of men, women and families called "TEAM" that have come together under one banner of national and global change through personal and leadership development. We have a common objective of growing to a primary goal of 1,000,000 people on our way to MILLIONS of people. I realize that it sounds unattainable to most that hear it, but it is our goal and we will achieve it. We are not concerned with who joins our effort, regardless of age, sex, race or religion. However, as an organization we adhere to the Judeo-Christian principles set forth in the Bible and we teach those principles in conjunction with business, family and social principles and ethics. Our focus is helping people achieve constantly higher self-assessed ratings in the areas of Character, Tasks and Relationships. The founders of our organization recently wrote a book called "Launching a Leadership Revolution", which is topping the charts of USA Today, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times.

I tell you that information in order to give you an idea of who we are and what we stand for. The point of this thread and the reason I wanted to put it on this site, is that it was recently brought to my attention that our government may want to sell off some of the land that has been dedicated to conservation. Whether or not it is true, is virtually irrelevant. It made me think. Our government is run by humans of the not-perfect type. We say it is a democracy, and compared to all other governments, it is the closest there is. However, things happen in our country today that would never have been thought to happen in our nation's short lifespan. The concept of land being sold off is POSSIBLE and even LIKELY, if not now, definitely in the future. But there is a way to stop it. I have heard that on our team, the founders and several of people on the Policy Council (which is a board of decision-makers comprised of people who have earned their right to be a part of that elite group and is open to ANYONE who desires to be a part of it) have purposed to buy an island with the first 25 policy council members and call it TEAM Island. That idea lead me to this idea. What if we as fishermen and outdoors enthusiasts took advantage of the economies of scale and geographic efficiency that TEAM is offering and raised enough money that as a GROUP of people who hold similar values and desires for our nation and our undeveloped land PURCHASED land, both public and private as it becomes available and preserved it as it should be preserved?! What if we controlled the majority of the Ozarks public land? What if every time someone was selling some of their land at the risk of it being developed for profit, we bought it from them and added it to the pot of protected and privately owned land? The possibilities are limitless.

I urge those of you that have a passion for preservation and conservation to contact me. I realize that I haven't given all the information about what TEAM does and how, but those are just details. They are VITAL details, but that is irrelevant if we do not have a purpose and a vision. We do have choices. We do have power. We CAN make a difference in people's lives and in the direction of our nation. We can own this land and protect it. I hope that you will take my words in the spirit in which they were intended and that we can team up to do the right thing with all that God has blessed us with. Have a great New Year and I hope to hear from you soon!

[Daddy Carp]

The concept is not new as lawyers and elite businessmen have been buying up distressed farms and land for several years in the name of corporations set up to collect money from: the Gov. on CRP land banking, Hunting clubs for exclusive rights to use, Club members on memberships & dues, user fees. A very big business on distressed farm lands & forests and flood plains. The group you sited (buying an island)? I would look this type of group over real close. Anytime an "appointed" group is put in charge of something useful, valuable and desireable, it's not long before things are changed or made for the benifit of a select few. For some reason, Human-nature just don't like to share or agree on common ground. Most groups that advocate seclusion to a private area outside the jurisdiction of our Constitution is very scarry!! DON'T DRINK THE KOOLAID! There is usually one or several individuals (weirdos) who lead for power/control/ monitary gain or because "voices in their heads told them to"! Remember WACO and the kerosene cauffin, or JIMMY JONES and the cake & koolaid picknic? If people want to protect what is here, They need to start taking responsibility, listening to the events & happenings, learning how it will effect them and then going to the polls and casting an INFORMED vote. Problem is, less and less of society is willing to take that responsibility as time passes. They are to deep into themselves to care what is going on around them. Think I'm foolish? Stop 10 people at random & ask 3 questions: 1.Name the group bombed the trade centers and the date? 2.What country did the U.S. attack first, following that terrorist attack? 3. Who was in the office at that time, now held by Condoleezza Rice? Check it out!.....God Bless...D.C.

[OzarkKid07]

Wow DC, I must have sorely miscommunicated and that is MY fault. They aren't trying to buy an island to move us to... They're buying an island as a private resort for vacations. I sometimes forget to make myself clear when I'm excited about something. The only reason I mentioned that they're even considering buying an island is because that triggered my idea to buy up land to protect from development. Also, they don't appoint the Policy Council. As a matter of fact, no one has any control over who is a part of the Policy Council except for the people who volunteer to be ON the Policy Council. I can and will be a part of it as soon as humanly possible. I have to earn it though, no differently someone has to earn a place on a Board of Directors. I realize that some people on Boards of Directors may have bought their way there, but our team does not even allow for that. Proof of eligibility must be in the character, performance and leadership of all who would desire that status.

"If people want to protect what is here, They need to start taking responsibility, listening to the events & happenings, learning how it will effect them and then going to the polls and casting an INFORMED vote. Problem is, less and less of society is willing to take that responsibility as time passes. They are to deep into themselves to care what is going on around them."

I could not agree with you more here, as does the Team. Responsibility and awareness are a large part of what we stand for! As for buying up distressed farms, that is not an ideology of TEAM or of me. I would rather see AID given to farmers who are in distress than advantage of their situation be taken by any individual or group. My idea is more that when someone decides to sell a piece of land that is worth preserving, it could be purchased, at a negotiated price that would benefit the sellers and add to the "kitty" of land that we desire to preserve and protect for nature lovers and outdoor sportsman. It would not be detrimental to ANYONE.

I sincerely apologize if my description of TEAM made it sound like a cult as it certainly is not. It is as decent an organization as I have ever come across in my life, especially considering it is not a religious organization.

I hope my explanation has shed more light on my true ideas. I also want to make it clear that my idea is not shared by TEAM. I am simply using TEAM as a vehicle to achieve some of my dreams. While our website is password protected, you are more than welcome to check it out at www.the-team.biz. It is ambiguous for the visitor, but hopefully will give you an idea of who we are. Again, please accept my apology for my miscommunication. If you have any further question or comments, please feel free! Thanks for your response!

[Trav]

OH BOY!!!!!

Where do I start with this?

Do I even start at all? I fear that this whole thread will be 450 pages of why Trav is right all along with the whole "total extermination of the human species" theory.

Yet I will try to focus on just the errors of the idealogical purpose as was proposed.

Along with what DC mentioned there are too many social ramifications to consider. More than I care to mention, but as an Athiast, I, more than most, can see that even considering such an idea based on any religious "principles" will make the organization an automatic target as fanatical.

It is no different than a bunch of jews buying up property in palenstine. 4000 years of history has played on that quest and the jury is still out. Sportsman have guns right? Ha. Like that wont attract attention. Just ask them folks in Waco, oops, you cant.

The only way to get land and keep it, is by force. Just ask the native americans.

Your "island" wont be an island at all. It will still be American soil. Subject to all the laws of the land. That includes eminent domain. The human anthill will eventually consume your little preserve if the taxes dont do it first. For if it is "private" as explained, it wont have any sancuary from uncle sams greed. But rest assured, as DC said, it will be consumed by greed from within.

As noble as the philosophy sounds, the human race is destined to be its own enemy and there is nothing practical, noble, sensable, or reliable about any of it. Just chaos, greed, and destruction. Freakin Humans are consistant and predictable as whole so I know I am not the only one who sees this.

So you can wrench your earnings away for some inevitably failed cause, or you can buy a truck, a boat, a house, get a dog, have a couple kids, pay your taxes and squat like the rest of us hard working americans. We are all watching the same decline of social and economic morals every night on the 6 o clock news. AND THERE IS NOTHING TO BE DONE! Quit thinking like wet-nurse liberal and except your fate as a human.

Hopefully you will be able say when your old, that you served your country well, produced offspring that did the same, you lived with some dignity, and didnt believe in socialistic crap as your proposing.

Thats all I have to say about that-Forrest Gump

I saw the webpage and my feelings are still the same. Get a job. Get a hobby. You have too much time on your hands.

[OzarkKid07]

Well, Trav, I see that you and i are at an impasse. You seem to be a glass-is-half-empty kind of guy and I am the opposite. I don't mean that as an insult at all, it's just the facts as supported by your statements. I certainly support your right to say all the things you believe and hold dear and am excited to live in a country where it is possible to have that freedom. I am sorry that you don't understand where we're coming from or agree with our direction. Actually, I'm probably not sorry because if you're excited about accepting our circumstances as a naion, then I'll be excited when we DO change things in our nation and your place among the ranks of those who said that our founding fathers couldn't do it will be secured. As a side note, I'm sure that you will agree that you live by some religious principles, whether you give religion credit or not. Of course, I am assuming that you aren't a murderer, an adulterer or one who despises his parents. Principles aren't a bad thing my friend. I hope that we can agree to disagree and that you will respect my attempt to gain some friends through this website that may see things our way and would like to give it the old college try. I hope you have a safe New Year! Tight lines!

[Phil Lilley]

Trav- you are 100% right about the human race. Outside of something miraculous, there is absolutely NO hope. And if you don't believe in the miraculous... then there is just today and what enjoyment you can find in it.

And what DO we see in today's "religious" people? Pretty much the same thing you see in the rest of the world- people void of love, joy and peace. So why should anyone want to join their ranks?

It should make a "religious" person hit their knees and cry out to God for mercy.

THAT'S what needs to happen in this country.

It's happening in other parts of this world where believers are getting put in prison, beaten, tortured and killed for their faith, but not here.

[OzarkKid07]

Hey fellas, I think that our discussion has gotten far removed from what I'm talking about, and maybe that's because I'm not very good at communication. Believe me, I'm working on that. Just ask my wife. My point was not an existential or religious one, nor was it a "save the world" speech. I just see an opportunity to take advantage of the benefits of free-enterprise and an economy that rewards big thinking and a government that may or may not have conservation at the top of its priorities and do something. It's not a scam or a cult, it's a business in which the book that describes our core competency is topping the charts all over our country. And my idea of owning lots of land through the power of combined effort rather than individually is simply that- A group of people who want to ensure that we have a place to fish and hunt and so do our great, great grandkids. I don't care about what is out of my control, my concern is with things that I can influence. And I believe this is one of them. Whether you believe in a God or not, you can be a man of character who accomplishes something great for our nation currently and for posterity. And, to be sensitive, I'm not saying that this is the only great thing. I just think it is one great thing, and it happens to be my great thing.

[stone9-7=2]

Whose Land Is It? Gods for those who believe & for those who dont it just showed up one day out of no where.

As for no love,joy & peace well you may be rt,i like to think i love people,that i have joy in my life & im at peace with myself.

Then again my church is out on the water & in the woods.

LOVE,JOY & PEACE TO YOU ALL. Happy New Year.

[Daddy Carp]

Whose Land Is It? Gods for those who believe & for those who dont it just showed up one day out of no where.

As for no love,joy & peace well you may be rt,i like to think i love people,that i have joy in my life & im at peace with myself.

Then again my church is out on the water & in the woods.

LOVE,JOY & PEACE TO YOU ALL. Happy New Year.

I can well understand what you're saying. My mother used to tell me repeatedly that "I should come to church" - "I need to go to church regular cause that's where god is" - "that I should come to church to find Jesus". During those years, I was working 5&6 days a week and raising kids. When I had a chance on Sundays, I would normally go hunting or fishing, which is probably why she was upset with me. She said this again several years ago, probably for the last time as: I smiled and spoke gently as I replied "Gee Mom, I didn't know you guys were trying to find him or that he was lost! If I had known, I would have brought him too your church and friends. You see, he was right there in the woods that his father created beside me on a log while I thanked his dad for all of this and my time and health to enjoy it. Now since I was able to talk to, my, God out there in his creation, maybe we worship different Gods? Could it be that he is all seeing and all knowing as the bible states? Do you think there's a chance that those people in the church keep telling how well-off and close to God they are, He felt no longer needed there?" Needless to say, the room was very quiet for what seemed a very long time. I love and respect my mother dearly, but have made my own choices and mistakes for many years. Finally she spoke and said "No, he's the same one! He is in all places. The important thing is that you have and keep an open communication with him. The place is not important" Then of course, she added "I can see I taught you well when you were young!" I just replied, "yep, sure did"!! I am a Mason and PM if you happen to be familiar with the org. We do not argue one religion over another, but require a belief in a Higher Power/Supreme Being otherwise no creed, promise or obligation can be binding upon you. God Bless....D.C.

[Trav]

There is no point in arguing over faith.

Im not saying that because I dont have a "higher power", but because I have studied it extensively. Not because of a "soul searching" quest for the truth, but to aquire my degree in Philosophy. As anyone who has blundered down the scholastic path of higher learning should know, the prerequisites are the mountains to pass before you can drink from the spring of personal interests. Well, my mountain was Religion. A subject I dreaded to undertake, but without, I wouldnt have truly understood why the human race does why it does.

Did you know that there are over 3000 documented religions dating back over mankinds existance? And thats just the tip of the iceburg if you were to disect each and every sect over the ages.

One thing I learned is that they are all wrong or they are all right. No one religion can claim the proof of a higher power over another. Mere existance can not be claimed as proof. Niether can the claim that "with no disproval then is must be so".

The facts are, it is real to those who worship. No matter what is done or said the human race would not have evolved without the crutch of faith. It is a very powerful motivation tool and it is a tried and proven anvil. No matter what the belief, it is what trillions of humans hold on to or they would just give up. There is a reason why it is called Faith. Because in the minds of believers it is unwaivering. Just ask any terrorist why they strap on a bomb.

The king can bring the peasants to church but he cant make them believe. Nor should he. Humans are a fickle lot. It is in thier nature. Or there wouldnt be so much conflict over this very subject.

Now just because I am not a warring murderous anarchist does not conclude that I must have some "religious" morality anchoring me to solice calm ideals. It is true that I happen to not need the crutch of a faith to survive my daily toils. But I am a good person because my parents raised me that way. Simple as that. They get all the credit. And anyone who really knows me will say my life started out pretty dire and because of it I am looking at terminal consiquences. I accept my life the way it is and hold total responsibilty for both the bad and the good. I dont need to seek forgiveness from what I consider to be a cultural transgressor.

OK, with that all said. Lets just agree to leave the religious arguments in your church, synagogue, mosque, or for some, your logs, rivers and woods. I for one cant stomach the issue. Not to mention, I can out preach my non-belief better than anyone can attempt at thiers. Im really not the guy you want to have a wizzing match on this subject.

But if you want to to put the gloves on over politics I am definatly your man. HaHa (GO MCCAIN)

I believe we strayed from the topic at hand. I can see why it has and the comparisons to cults might have been our error. Let me put it back on track.

Whos land is it?

Its the governments land and dont you forget it. You may "own" some land but you still have to pay taxes for that priviledge. If the government wanted your land they would just take it. Of course you will get fair market value but all the same, all your sentimental ties to that land doesnt mean squat. Just ask the thousands of people whose farms are drowned under Tablerock Lake.

And NO I cant believe that some left-wing liberal organization can ever achieve anything as dramatic as formatted in that clumsy description of conservation revolution. Mentioning titles like "founding fathers". Sounds like some kind of revolution to me. As bad as "our nation" might be, or can get, you havent seen anything until they decide to squash your so called founding fathers back into the 60s. Or have you forgot what dear old law-and-order Nixon did to those flag burning counter-culturists.

I may not have any faith in a higher power, but I do know that we live in the best darn country in the world. Good or bad, we are what we are because we freakin took what we wanted. Anyone or thing that got in our way learned a hard lesson. We are fighters and we dont like to loose. So tell your founding fathers that if they were of any salt at all, they wouldnt send some sales-pitch into a fishing forum to drum up diciples.

I dont "college try", I slug it out or fail.

I cant speak for anyone else but I AM NOT BUYING!