Tim Smith

Skepticism is the default position until there is solid data. You've got a hypothesis that has some supporting observations. I believe your observation that numbers are down where you are looking. But how many places did you look and what species did you check and did you check at the same times of year? It takes a lot of work to be sure about a broad general statement like that.

Mussels have a hard time getting out of the way of bad water quality the way fish can. They're sensitive bioidicators of water quality and you never saw a more pissed off sewage treatment plant operator then when they found out we would be monitoring those to test effects on their operation.

The main problem with silt is that it fills in the spaces between rocks where crayfish could hide. In fishable streams, crayfish density is typically connected directly to the amount of space they have to hide from fish. Fill in the hiding spaces...the predators take them out and crayfish populations decline. That one's well established by the science. Crayfish populations are volatile anyway. You're going to have a hard time pointing to one cause for a decline or even if there is really a general decline at all.

I bet the individuals on the response team care. You're probably right about the overall politics and they've been put in a position where they can't really do much. If this situation is going to change it will come down to political pressure from people who don't want every lion shot on sight. Sierra Club, Audubon, local chapters of conservation groups are going to have to get active and publicize the issue and mobilize voters. If they don't have the votes nothing is going to change. I wonder where the sportsman's groups would fall on this issue?

Hopefully it's not too late (probably is) for black carp. They're being caught all over the Mississippi basin and more than a few are diploids. Nico et al. 2005. Black carp: biological synopsis and risk assessment of an introduced fish American Fisheries Society Special Publication 32. 337 pp.

Alright then I'll put my skepticism aside. It's too bad they're established, really. There aren't any other fish herbivores that size among our natives. Gotta wonder if that's going to lead to trouble in the long run.

Do you ever see juveniles? Are there really so many they have to be breeding there?

You know I've heard Larry Page say that about the Mississippi but then when you ask him how he knows that, the best he has is "Well there are diploids there." He' probably right but I'd like to really see what the fish farms are stocking before I buy that entirely. Agreed about the foraging patterns. "Fictional foraging groups" is more accurate that "functional foraging groups". Everything strays in eating habits from time to time.

Fish swim. It could be from anywhere...washed out of a farm pond during the floods. I've shocked them bigger than that out of golf course creeks you could hop across. Who knows.

I was friends with the USDA animal control officer in Mendocino County California when I lived out there. Mountain lions were thick in that area. Our crews saw several and we often encountered deer kills in the field. According to him mountain lions did sometimes attack livestock. Apparently they have a particular fondness for llamas. Also according to him (and he did this for a living so I assume he knows) with a good set of dogs it was a very simple matter to find and kill the offending cat. Only a small percentage of mountain lions ever became a problem and despite their high density in close proximity to livestock he was rarely on the job. It doesn't take much to cope with these animals and there is a demonstrated willingness of conservation groups to help landowners deal with legitimate problems. Giving up a chance to reclaim a piece of your natural heritage makes no sense at all from the perspective of an outdoorsman. It's time for the state to get aggressive about this issue and start laying the ground work to lay the myths to rest, set a realistic standard for "self defense" and deal assertively with the few legitimate problems this putative "re-colonization" might entail for landowners and livestock owners.

You're probably right, although the fear factor gets expressed here on the boards pretty regularly. I'm beginning to agree with OTF and Kayser and the others that it's time to make a concerted effort to ask the state to take this seriously. It's time to start prosecuting. Has there been any organization toward that goal yet?

Grass carp on a cricket. Pretty unusual. Do you have a picture of the sunfish? Bet they weren't bluegill.

I saw a pair of mountain lions on Labor Day in Colorado. They were well over a quarter of a mile away walking along the edge of a stock tank. I pulled over to get a better look and even from that distance they saw me and took off for the hills...just like they do almost every single time they see a human. I work and recreate around mountain lions (or jaguars) every week. Millions of people are out among mountain lions every day and over the last 10 years the grand total of incidents is 80. Your neighbor's dog is a much bigger threat to you than one of these big cats. You have a better chance of winning the lottery than being harmed by these animals. The level of fear directed toward these animals is completely inappropriate (although if you want to talk gizzly bears then maybe there's a conversation to be had there). I thought outdoorsmanship was supposed to make us more courageous. Shooting a mountain lion is exactly the opposite of that. And although I'd like to agree that education is needed, I think you can't say much to the kinds of people who are doing this. Their ears and minds are closed and they're beyond hope.

Thanks. I learned something there. I'll try it and see what happens.

Yes, but unless you're whacky rigging, how does a circle hook work with plastics? Seems they would look and fish really awkward and its hard to imagine how the hook up would work (athough I confess the hook-up/hook sets for circle hooks still mystify me a bit...it's hard to see how they work even though they obviously do). What does a plastic rigged circle hook look like? It would be great if you could use them for this, but how would it work?

I think that comment they made about not shutting the gate was directed toward conditions after the lake was drained. If only the deepest parts of the lake are left with water over them, they'll be silty and loaded with nutrients and the remaining stagnant water would be likely to summerkill. I'm not willing to say it's an inside job but I agree it's a little odd that no one shut the gate. If the lake was run down and needed to be rehabilitated it might have been easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.

I've used circle hooks for bottom fishing and I like them for that. I'd be curious how to make them work on a moving soft bait. The hydrodynamics look bad even if the hooksets are safer.

At 26 acres that's more than a day. And nobody shut the gate in all that time?

...considered keeping it yes, but just because a fish is gut hooked that's not a death sentance. Unless the thing was clearly sinking straight to the bottom, gut hooked fish can survive. The science suggests cut the line and let them heal and throw the hook later. The odds aren't great, but they have a chance. I've tubed several fish that had old rusted hooks in their gullet and they were reasonably healthy. It all depends. By cutting the line rather than worsening the wound by digging around blindly and opening it further, you gave that fish its best chance to live.

Ha! To beat that you've gotta use rotenone, although C and R might be a bit difficult at that point.

Do you ever get nervous with all that dynamite in the boat?

The American Fisheries Society, "the" scientific professional fisheries organization in North America, is offering a free month of Fisheries magazine in a effort to boost membership. AFS publications are more or less the epicenter of carefully peer-reviewed scientific information about North American fisheries. Most of the relevant fisheries research in North American is channeled through AFS journals. Most of our credible fisheries professionals are or have been AFS members. It's a good chance to tap into the pulse of cutting-edge fisheries conservation information, a worthwhile step for anyone who thinks seriously about fisheries and wants to stay informed. http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/ufsh20/current

Glad that turned out ok, Dano. Good to see you.

Because he's interested in their content? A good conservation board runs on content... ...as opposed to say, nit-picking at individuals.

That may be close to true with small dry fly hooks, but as you move up to larger gear some hooking mortality is inevitable. A fish that inhales a bait or is unlucky enough to pierce the arteries under the tounge is likely to die no matter what you do. This subject has been studied to death scientifically. Once you decide to fish you're going to kill a few, catch and release or not.