aftersh0ck

He did say on ice, probally legit, if they were alive there might be something to worry about with transporting fish since its to keep gzzrd shad out of some places like smaller lakes.

before you guys think what a azzhat. I sent him a IM and told him there was no disrespect and making a attempt to help him out this spring.

bad thing about this way above normal weather. everything gets hurried then to many cold fronts.

theres always the freezer section at the store, look for jack salmon. jk call the guides or bait shops and ask for a report is a good start.

I have property at a 100 acre that they messed up with over stocking grass carp and spraying. they are having a under 12 inch bass tourney and fish fry. they did it last year with over 120 bass. I think they should wait another year or before doing it again. sucks because half the azzbags wont through the smallmouth back that we stocked.

right idea, wrong fish. should be selling a unlimited supply of asian carp. im curious if they would trade L0L

my nephew lives by me in the suburbs of st.louis and finds a azz load in his back yard under a section of trees. the caps are monsters. would show a pic but they have already been fried.

I could of swore it said general angling, not politcs. should just keep it to fishing one thing we all have in common.

hell yeah, i used to fly fish for them at my lake property with acorns in the fall under the elm and oak trees. 30-40lb grass carp is insane taking almost 45mins to land them. any of you guys around st.louis would be interested in coming out this summer or fall would love to get these bastards out. eating all the weeds and messing up the fishing. whens the next cicada time expected? you can use your bass rods and use topwater imatations. pulled me around in my boat.

all the tourneys i fished in the past were in the back. i did alright. at the time the boat was a 16ft 40hp. not something to use and expect your parnter to pay half let alone fish. lining up in the morning with the other boats would of been awful.

thats actually a good drawing

like i was saying the one i caught was at the mouth of a creek and the meramec way upstream from the springs on a trout float with the county parks around 94 and thought it was a pickerel and asked to use one of the guys pliers to get my hook out and he said it was a pike and they are in the area. as before i think those are all bastages from the hatchery along with the muskie. then when i got home and looked in the book it all made sense reading more about them and seeing the pics the difference in looks were obvious then but at the time no. back to the original idea of this post. in some of the big lakes. having them sound good or bad if possible? having them under a dock would be awesome but check your pants after you get them in.

yes sir, agreed

water temps didnt drop much with the cold. that is one good day, have a great dinner and your day is complete. nice report.

Thats probally how they got here originally to any of the streams connecting to the missouri and miss. the others yes from hatcheries in the south. i understand that we dont fit the profile of a cold water area. we can get rainbow and brown trout which are from nowhere close to here reproduce in certain streams and without any denying but cant figure out why its so hard to put professional documentation of a studies going back to 1930 displayed here and a maps showing its known native range over personal belief. must not be reading or looking at the pages. http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188788_187838691260889_100001042785881_502417_6220944_n.jpg

Definatley, fishing for trout and having a full size one come and grab your fish would not be fun let alone eating them after being stocked. Close to the bottom in my post above the detailed one it shows spawning and growth rate in missouri compared to other states. it sounds tough for them to grow big let alone spawn in numbers which explains the rareness of being caught and not being like you see in canada. Sorry to smash heads with some of you guys. I was just stating the facts on that. Understandable with them being rare and our climit. just not understanding where you have 2 of the most credible sources for fish here saying they are native. my posting title has me listed as a big mouth buffalo. fitting for this weekend. The usgs map amazed me on how widespread they have been found. Tried posting the map directley on here but the background was black for some reason. just have to copy and paste. right here shows it plain as day. nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=676

L0L

the forum was shortening them for some reason. had to remove the http:// i copied both straight out of the mdc website. also try the usgs. nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=676 mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/applications/mofwis/Mofwis_Summary.aspx?id=0100124 Missouri Fish and Wildlife Information System Summary Navigation Summary information for PIKE, NORTHERN Common Name PIKE, NORTHERN Scientific Name ESOX LUCIUS Status GAME Primary Habitat Association Aquatic - river/stream Preferred Habitat Occurs in lakes, reservoirs, large streams, sloughs, oxbows, marshes and backwaters. Prefers areas with dense aquatic vegetation and avoids strong currents. Distribution Occurs mostly north of the Missouri river and in the lower Osage R., also in a few reservoir and rivers in southern Missouri *002*. Known to occur in these counties: BOONE, CALLAWAY, CARTER, CEDAR, CLARK, COLE, CRAWFORD, DEKALB, HOLT, LEWIS, MACON, MADISON, MARION, MILLER, OSAGE, PLATTE, RALLS, RANDOLPH, RAY, SALINE, ST. CHARLES, WAYNE mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/applications/mofwis/Mofwis_Detail.aspx?id=0100124 Missouri Fish and Wildlife Information Taxonomy Common Name: PIKE, NORTHERN Phylum: CHORDATA Class: OSTEICHTHYES Order: SALMONIFORMES Family: ESOCIDAE Genus: ESOX Species: LUCIUS Taxonomic Authority: LINNAEUS Taxonomy References: 001 Status GAME Status References: 011, 020 Habitat Summary Occurs in lakes, reservoirs, large streams, sloughs, oxbows, marshes and backwaters. Prefers areas with dense aquatic vegetation and avoids strong currents. Primary Habitat: Aquatic - river/stream References: 012 Distribution General Occurrence in State: Occurs mostly north of the Missouri river and in the lower Osage R., also in a few reservoir and rivers in southern Missouri *002*. County Occurrence Common and Unknown and Unlikely: CRAWFORD BUTLER BENTON ADAIR CASS OSAGE CAMDEN POLK DADE DOUGLAS DEKALB CARROLL SHANNON HOWARD HOWELL MADISON CHARITON TEXAS JACKSON JASPER RAY MONROE HICKORY JEFFERSON OZARK BOONE REYNOLDS OREGON JOHNSON ST. FRANCOIS PLATTE AUDRAIN PEMISCOT LACLEDE STODDARD CARTER CLINTON CHRISTIAN PHELPS VERNON CEDAR GRUNDY NEWTON PIKE BARTON LEWIS LINCOLN BARRY SHELBY DUNKLIN MARION PETTIS NEW MADRID SULLIVAN IRON SALINE KNOX ST. CLAIR WARREN LAWRENCE CLARK LIVINGSTON STE. GENEVIEVE HARRISON MCDONALD COLE PUTNAM BATES LINN MISSISSIPPI MILLER ANDREW CAPE GIRARDEAU MERCER PULASKI RANDOLPH BUCHANAN DENT SCOTLAND RIPLEY ST. CHARLES CALDWELL GREENE ST. LOUIS SCOTT WAYNE CLAY HENRY WASHINGTON WRIGHT CALLAWAY FRANKLIN MORGAN DALLAS BOLLINGER HOLT LAFAYETTE PERRY GASCONADE STONE MACON MONTGOMERY TANEY RALLS SCHUYLER NODAWAY WORTH ATCHISON WEBSTER GENTRY COOPER DAVIESS MARIES MONITEAU References for distribution: 002, 010, 024, 033 Distribution by Watersheds Wyaconda R. North Fabius R. and Middle Fabius R. South Fabius R. Miss. R. from Des Moines R. to MO. R.; and North R. Meramec R. Castor R. and Castor R. Diversion Channel St. Francis R. from Headwaters to Wappapello Dam Mo. R. from Nishnabotna R. to Nodaway R. Mo.R. from Nodaway to Kansas City Grand R. from Headwaters to Shoal Creek Little Chariton R. Sac R. Osage R. from Bagnell Dam to Mo. R. Gasconade R. from Big Piney R. to Mo. R. Mo. R. from Kansas City to Little Chariton R. Mo. R. from Little Chariton R. to Gasconade R. Blackwater R. Black R. Comments: Distribution by Ecoregions Central Till Plains Ozark Highlands Distribution by Potential Natural Vegetation Bluestem Prairie/Oak Hickory Forest Oak-Hickory Forest Distribution by Natural Divisions of Missouri Glaciated Plains: Western Glaciated Plains: Eastern Glaciated Plains: Lincoln Hills Big Rivers: Upper Missouri Big Rivers: Lower Missouri Big Rivers: Upper Mississippi Ozark Border Ozark Border: Missouri River Ozark Border: Mississippi River Ozark: Springfield Plateau Ozark: Upper Ozark Habitat Associations Species is associated with Aquatic habitats National Wetlands Inventory Association: Lacustrine Palustrine Riverine Aquatic Associations: Palustrine, Forested, broad-leaved deciduous permanently flooded Lacustrine, littoral, Aquatic bed, unknown submergent Palustrine, Aquatic bed, unknown submergent Riverine, unknown perennial, Unconsolidated bottom, mud References for Aquatic Associations: 002, 012, 015, 018 Habitat Types: Swamp Pond, Lake, Reservoir Marsh Permanent Stream References for Habitat Types: 002, 012, 013 Terrestrial Natural Communities: Wetland Marshes Freshwater Marsh Pond Marsh Swamps Swamp Pond Swamp References for Terrestrial Natural Communities: 002, 010, 012, 015, 018 Food Habits Trophic Level: Carnivore Larval Food Habits Comments for larval food habits: Fry may begin active feeding before yolk is fully absorbed *004* References for larval food habits: Comments for larval food habits: 004 Juvenile Food Habits Aquatic Insects; See Comments Salientia (frogs, toads, peepers, tree frogs); Larva stage Coleoptera (beetles); Larva stage Perciformes (bass, sunfishes, perches, drums, sculpins); Larva stage Diptera (flies, midges, mosquitos, gnats); Larva stage Aquatic Insects; Larva stage Aquatic Insects; Pupa stage Diptera (flies, midges, mosquitos, gnats); Pupa stage Salmoniformes (trout, salmon, smelts, pikes); Juvenile stage Perciformes (bass, sunfishes, perches, drums, sculpins); Juvenile stage Perciformes (bass, sunfishes, perches, drums, sculpins); Not Specified Atheriniformes (killifishes, livebearers, silversides); Not Specified Percopsiformes (cavefishes, pirate perch, trout-perch); Not Specified Cypriniformes (minnows, carps, suckers); Not Specified Copepods (Cyclops, Calanus); Not Specified Branchiopods (Daphnia, Cladocera); Not Specified Hirudineans (leeches); Not Specified Snails; Not Specified Comments for juvenile food habits: Also eats aquatic insect nymphs *004,005,015*. Until 25 mm, mainly feed on Entomostracans. At 26-50 mm in length,mainly feed on immature aquatic insects, when greater than 50 mm, diet is mainly fish and other vertebrates. *004* References for juvenile food habits: 004, 005, 014, 030 Adult Food Habits Odonata (dragonflies, damselflies); See Comments Ephemeroptera (mayflies); See Comments Trichoptera (caddisflies); Pupa stage Clupeiformes (herrings); Juvenile stage Ephemeroptera (mayflies); Not Specified Odonata (dragonflies, damselflies); Not Specified Trichoptera (caddisflies); Not Specified Insects Insects; Not Specified Malacostraca (lobster, shrimp, crayfish, crabs); Not Specified Aquatic Insects; Not Specified See comments on seasonal variation; Not Specified Hirudineans (leeches); Not Specified Salmoniformes (trout, salmon, smelts, pikes); Not Specified Cypriniformes (minnows, carps, suckers); Not Specified Percopsiformes (cavefishes, pirate perch, trout-perch); Not Specified Gadiformes (cod fishes, codlets); Not Specified Perciformes (bass, sunfishes, perches, drums, sculpins); Not Specified Amphibians; Not Specified Salientia (frogs, toads, peepers, tree frogs); Not Specified Mammals; Not Specified Soricidae (shrews); Not Specified Cricetidae (woodrats, mice, voles, lemmings); Not Specified Birds; Not Specified Anseriformes (swans, geese, and ducks); Not Specified Clupeiformes (herrings); Adult Stage Comments for adult food habits: Also eats mayfly and dragonfly nymphs *015*. References for adult food habits: 002, 007, 008, 014, 016 Niche Requirements Egg Niche Requirements Water temperature: cold water: less than 21 c (70 f) Water temperature specified in comments(00010) Siltation specified in comments(00050) Bottom type: rooted aquatic vegetation Aquatic vegetation: sedge (Carex) Aquatic vegetation: spike rush (Eleocharis) Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120) Density of aquatic vegetation: dense Current velocity specified in comments(00150) Water depth: shallow References for egg niches requirements: 002, 003, 005, 006, 015, 016 Feeding Larvae Niche Requirements Aquatic vegetation Big river habitat: backwaters General habitat association specified in comments(00270) References for feeding larvae niche requirements: 005, 029 Resting Larvae Niche Requirements Aquatic vegetation Big river habitat: backwaters General habitat association specified in comments(00270) References for resting larvae niche requirements: 005, 029 Feeding Juvenile Niche Requirements Underwater cover: submerged timber Underwater cover: woody debris Underwater cover specified in comments(00105) General habitat association specified in comments(00270) References for feeding juvenile niche requirements: 004, 032 Resting Juvenile Niche Requirements Aquatic vegetation: sedge (Carex) Aquatic vegetation: spike rush (Eleocharis) Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120) Big river habitat: backwaters Inland wetlands specified in comments(00250) Inland wetlands: backwaters References for resting juvenile niche requirements: 015, 023 Breeding Adult Niche Requirements Water temperature specified in comments(00010) Bottom type: organic debris Bottom type: rooted aquatic vegetation Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120) Density of aquatic vegetation: dense Current velocity specified in comments(00150) Aquatic habitat zone specified in comments(00170) Water level: seasonally flooded Water level: semi-fluctuating reservoir level (occasional) Water depth: shallow Water depth specified in comments(00230) Inland wetlands: marsh Inland wetlands: slough, bayou Inland wetlands: permanent stream Inland wetlands: pond, lake, reservoir References for breeding adult niche requirements: 002, 003, 016 Feeding Adult Niche Requirements Bottom type: mud or silt Bottom type: rooted aquatic vegetation Underwater cover: submerged timber Underwater cover: woody debris Underwater cover specified in comments(00105) Aquatic vegetation: sedge (Carex) Aquatic vegetation: pondweed (Potamogeton) Aquatic vegetation: coontail (Ceratophyllum) Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120) Big river habitat: backwaters Big river habitat: tributary confluence Big river habitat: sandbar complexes Water depth: shallow Water depth specified in comments(00230) Inland wetlands: swamp Inland wetlands: marsh Inland wetlands: slough, bayou Inland wetlands: spring pool Inland wetlands: permanent stream Inland wetlands: pond, lake, reservoir Inland wetlands: oxbow Inland wetlands: backwaters Stream order: second order stream Stream order: third order stream Stream order: fourth order stream Stream order: seventh order stream Stream order: eighth order stream Stream order: ninth order or greater stream Stream order specified in comments(00260) General habitat association specified in comments(00270) References for feeding adult niche requirements: 002, 010, 012, 015, 018, 025, 027, 028, 032 Resting Adult Niche Requirements Stream order specified in comments(00260) General habitat association specified in comments(00270) References for resting adult niche requirements: 002, 010, 012, 015 Niche Requirement Summary Water temperature: cold water: less than 21 c (70 f) Siltation specified in comments(00050) Density of aquatic vegetation: dense Inland wetlands: marsh Inland wetlands: permanent stream Inland wetlands specified in comments(00250) Underwater cover specified in comments(00105) Water level: seasonally flooded Stream order: ninth order or greater stream Stream order specified in comments(00260) Water temperature specified in comments(00010) Bottom type: mud or silt Aquatic vegetation Inland wetlands: swamp Inland wetlands: oxbow Stream order: fourth order stream Stream order: seventh order stream General habitat association specified in comments(00270) Current velocity specified in comments(00150) Water depth: shallow Water depth specified in comments(00230) Inland wetlands: spring pool Stream order: second order stream Stream order: third order stream Underwater cover: submerged timber Big river habitat: tributary confluence Big river habitat: sandbar complexes Inland wetlands: pond, lake, reservoir Bottom type: organic debris Bottom type: rooted aquatic vegetation Aquatic vegetation: sedge (Carex) Aquatic vegetation: spike rush (Eleocharis) Aquatic habitat zone specified in comments(00170) Big river habitat: backwaters Aquatic vegetation specified in comments(00120) Inland wetlands: slough, bayou Stream order: eighth order stream Underwater cover: woody debris Aquatic vegetation: pondweed (Potamogeton) Aquatic vegetation: coontail (Ceratophyllum) Water level: semi-fluctuating reservoir level (occasional) Inland wetlands: backwaters Comments for all niche requirement fields: Code Comment 00010: Temperatures for pike in spawning season should be between 7 C and 19 C the optimum temperature is 12 C *03*. Results of sd. Experimental field studies indicate that in some years high embryo mortality arising from low water temperatures and rapid water temperature fluctuations may contribute to year class failure. A water temperature drop from 10.5 C to about 7.5 C that persisted, was associated with high mortalities (75%) during early embryonic development. When the temperature remained near 5 c, mortality was essentially 100%. Embryos appeared to be tolerant of diurnal temperature changes of up to 4 C *06*. Embyro development is dependent on water temperature a total of 210-270 degrees days above 32 degrees F are needed for embryos to hatch *05*. In a NY study spawning consistantly occurred at temperatures above 5.5 degrees *16*. Temperatures for spawning should be between 7 and 19 degrees C *03*. 00050: Deposition of only 1 mm. Of silt per 24-hour period during early embryonic development caused mortalities of 97% or more *06*. 00105: In SD prairie streams, highest densities were found in areas with snags and woody debris *32*. Young of the year pike appear to favor the sedge eleocharis palustris for cover *15*. Aquatic vegetation types used in spawning are eleocharis spp. and carex spp.*05*. Spawning occurs over any available vegetation so long as depth is suitable and cattail, brush or bushes are absent. Heavy or thick-stemmed vegetation is avoided *16*. Spawns over substrates of flooded terrestrial grasses *05*. Found in beds of elodea, potamogeton, ceratophyllum *18*. 00120: An Alaskan study found that aquatic vascular plants were the most important habitat characteristic. In may-June sedges were used for spawning. In July, as water levels dropped and sedges were no longer available, horsetail was used for cover. Used pondweed in late July-August *15*. 00150: Avoids strong currents *02*. 00170: In a NY study, spawning occurred in open waters over/at any suitable vegetation and depth *16*. 00230: In a NY study, spawning occurred at depths of 6" to 24". Spawning area preferences were correlated with with depth, not vegetation type. As depths changed in the marsh, substrates used shifted accordingly *16* 00250: In the Mississippi River, young-of-the-year were found in backwaters during winter. Backwaters generally had temperatures slightly warmer than the main channel, and also provided refuge from the river current *23*. In IL study, moved into backwaters as water temperatures fell from 10 degrees to 5 degrees C, appeared to leave backwaters in spring when water temperatures were still less than 5 degrees C, but rising *26*. 00260: 44.5% of the samples taken in mo. Were taken in stream orders 07 and 08 *10*. Radiotelemetry study, used water less than 4 m deep majority of the time *18*. 00270: For four to six days larvae don't feed and remain quiescent in the vegetation at or near the bottom *05* foraging by juveniles occured on or near the bottom and in free-swimming zones *04*. In an Alaskan study, habitat was optimal when the water was brown, relatively warm and shallow, and contained dense stands of aquatic vegetation rooted in a muddy bottom *15*. Life History Information Origin in state: native Seasonal distribution in state: all seasons Foraging strategy: stalking Foraging sites: water Foraging sites: feed at surface of water Foraging sites: feed at mid-water zone Foraging sites: feed on bottom of stream, lake or pond Breeding season specified in comments(007) Spawning site: aquatic vegetation Gestation/incubation period specified in comments(017) Parental care of young: no care Age at sexual maturity specified in comments(022) Sex ratio: 1:1 Periodicity specified in comments(030) Mortality rate specified in comments(031) Limiting factors specified in comments(034) Regulatory factors specified in comments(035) Age and growth information specified in comments(038) Other life history information specified in comments(099) Comments about Life History: Code Comment 007: Spawn in the early spring *002*. 017: Embryos hatch in 1.5-3 weeks *005*. 022: In a SD study, maturity was determined by length rather then age. Males matured at 32-40 cm., females at 42-60 cm. *009*. 030: In colorado study, were most active April and May, least active in October *017* 031: In a 3-year mi. Study, mortality of eggs and young pike was between 99.56 and 99.93% *004*. 034: Limiting factors concerning n. Pike are rapid water level fluctuations drastic water temperature changes and sediment deposition during the spawning period *005,006,003*. In mo. Reservoirs, are limited by lack of adequate spawning habitat *02,017*. 035: Regulatory factors include yellow perch predation on young pike, cannibalism, competition for food with other fish. Parasites include trioenophorus crassus. Predators of juveniles include bluegills, leopard frogs and dytiscio larvae, and fishing *004,005,016,012*. 038: In a mo. Study, during the first 30 months of life, pike average nearly 1" growth per month *017*. 099: In colorado study, typically moved less than 400 m/day *018*. Will hybridize with chain pickerel *019* References for life history: 002, 003, 004, 005, 006, 009, 012, 017, 018, 019 Management Beneficial Management Practices: Regulate harvest of species being described Water - develop/maintain spawning/nesting facilities Water - develop/maintain lakes/ponds Water - develop/maintain wetlands Water - develop/maintain freshwater marsh Water - control sedimentation Water - control pollution (thermal, physical, chemical) Water - control water levels Water - allow flooding of wetlands adjacent to river to provide nursery habitat for fish Beneficial Management References: 005, 012 Adverse Management Practices: Water - dredging and filling Water - control aquatic plants Water - drainage of wetlands, marshes, ponds, lakes

Definatley both of you and anyone else, I had thought about selling them a few years ago when i learned larew had bought them out and discontinued them. was not sure on all the rights to that pattern since it was gone, thats where the idea of changing up the design came in and noticed it would actually improve it. prefered finding something close. knowing my luck i would open up my email the next day and have 200 orders waiting and have a single mold to work with. for you guys interested i dont mind making some for cost. most of the ones i have left i dipped some in olive, the others in brown. one bag is untouched. I only had looked at 2 sites for making them. will check out that page. would prefer to find someone i could meet in person to custom it out right the first time instead of just casting it and then describing what i want then hoping for the best. appreciate all the info. B

thanks guys, im going to have a mold made of these 2 sizes and 1/4 made and have the rounded end turned around to slow the fall more and keep it standing up even more on a second one. will let you know when done if your interested. B

yeah, the ones i got are a little diff but same concept. you got a mold or know something similiar?

yeah i was looking at those. trying to get a good pic of the ones im wanting to make a mold of since these are different from the rest. im looking for a stand up head instead of football but it has to have the offset worm part at the base. i prefer to make them weedless on my own without the guards and and without the screw, straight hooks make the body tear to easy and not swim right. pics are not showing up right on my comp. i will put it up soon as thing decide to work with me L0L. B

i just wish they would make them with the offset worm hook

Ive bought both the starting and trolling when they had the big fishing sales. they are alright. hold power fine but had 2 go out right as the wrnty ended. had 1 that i never used one season and went to put the charger on it and it was dead. i needed 2 that next day for for my trolling motor and went to walmart since it was the only open that late and expected the crappy ones i had in the late 90s from there and they re did them to a better style. both have worked awesome and were way cheaper then bass pro. optima are very good. i have one for my start. the sealed build is nice.

with all respect. im not confused. caught lots of pickerel at duck creek. copy and use outside the forum, its not connecting for me either while on the site. ones the full details of the fish and list of places all through out missouri the other compact of list of counties http://mdc4.mdc.mo.g...aspx?id=0100124 http://mdc4.mdc.mo.g...aspx?id=0100124 heres a map of native range, compared to the class stocking areas http://nas.er.usgs.g...x?SpeciesID=676 as for private stocking. someone did the same to the bigger lake at raintree