Lancer09

@Ryan Miloshewski Got your flies. I'll try and get everything sorted this weekend and out sometime next week.

Why would dropping the limit to 12 inches suddenly have to make so many guides go from catch and release to catch and keep? If all those same guides keep turning fish back it won't make a crazy difference I wouldn't think. Yes a ton of bass guys have the livescope and all that... but I doubt they are the ones who are now going to be magically keeping a limit of spots instead of letting them go. To me it seems like it might thin the herd just a little bit, I don't think the LM and SM are being out competed but I definitely don't see them in the same places I did years ago on TR. Now it's just 14 inch spots. Removing a few may give some prime space for those others to move back in. When I guided in Wyoming we didn't let clients keep fish. Period. Did we occasionally bonk lakers when we found them where they shouldn't be? Yes. Did that lead to the occasional awkward conversation where we had the opportunity to explain the dynamics of everything? also yes. It was no different than if we caught a brown or a brookie on the upper Snake, or a rainbow or cutbow in certain parts of YNP. Did it get to me occasionally when I would see a tourist camping in the area with a Cutthroat or two on a stringer or roasting over fire? Also yes, but that that was their right based on the regs. And frankly most of the anglers who were CAPABLE of doing that weren't the ones keeping trout. I did eventually keep one or two for personal eating and they were truly exceptional... but we mostly kept to bonking a couple whities and making smoked fish dip out of em.

Don't worry about it too much. They'll be here when they be here. I didn't check the mail this weekend. I will when I get home. I turn right out of my drive way so if I don't check when I get back with the mailbox on the drivers side.... I'm probably not going to that day.

1. Devin (Me) - Done 2. Ness - Received 3. Coldwater - Out? 4. Ham - Received 5.Billet - Received 6. Ryan - Mailed? 7. Flysmallie - received 8. Mrs. Billethead - Received 9. Coldwater's friend - ? 10. Daryk - Received

@ness Driving from KC to Springfield last weekend they were everywhere down around Deepwater, and Osceola. Especially along all the bridge areas. I've always wondered if if anyone would get in any trouble for getting out there on some public ground and just going to town with a chainsaw.

Agreed 100%. much of this conversation I am just trying to play Devil's advocate, a lot of people like to complain and gripe about peoples work ethic these days.. but either way employment is a two way street. It takes effort on both sides, and both should probably meet somewhere in the middle. Career regardless why would someone want to invest their time and energy into a company that isn't willing to invest in them as well. That could vary for people whether it be money, training, advancement opportunities.

2020 was a bad year to do that. I was #24 of of 2200 ish supervising agents in the insurance agency I worked for.

I have worked for free a LOT in my life. For multiple years in a row I was on call or at work 300+ days a year. I was not paid to be on call.. That was just part of the job. I have taken work calls while playing Left Center in mens league softball, while in a deer stand, the turkey woods, and played one handed in a sand volleyball league. All of these things were done because someone else didn't do their job, or adults couldn't handle themselves maturely. I answered questions on my honeymooon that I wasn't paid for because my supervisor wasn't prepared for my absence even though he had all the tools needed. I have put in the extra work. The ONLY thing it has earned me.... is more work. I've been looked over for promotions, trained new supervisors, and then watched them leave again for better opportunities. I've been told straight up that I wasn't even going to get interviews for certain positions because I didn't fit a "criteria" that the employer was looking to hire. I won't air those grievances here, but will gladly explain in a private message. IF you want the work force to be loyal to the employer, the employer needs to be loyal to the worker. I've seen that missing. I've devoted most of my working life to public service, and when people say it is a thankless job, it really can be. There is a reason that a lot of people wash out, and it's not lack of skill or capability.

That is an acceptable excuse.

So work for free? Just playing devil's advocate here.

Fly Smallies arrived on Saturday. I'll go through the flies in the next day or so and start splitting them up for everyone. Still missing flies from Ryan, and I believe Coldwaterfishr who is no longer participating, but also if his friend is. Don't know if he has a profile on here.

Even if I don't agree with it, this mentality has been hammered into people my age since I started working in 2006 at 15, and even more so professionally in 2014 after graduate school. Particularly by people who came up in the business like Ness mentioned. Not a bad thing, and both sides have validity. I think the biggest problem is different generations not understanding each other and figuring out the best way to handle that.

All good. we are still within the normal time i've seen fly swaps take.

As of yesterday afternoon I've not got any more flies. Just wanted to make sure that Everyone knows. 1. Devin (Me) - Done 2. Ness - Received 3. Coldwater - Out? 4. Ham - Received 5.Billet - Received 6. Ryan - Mailed? 7. Flysmallie - Mailed? 8. Mrs. Billethead - Received 9. Coldwater's friend 10. Daryk - Received I think this is the most (ish) updated list. Please let me know if none of this looks correct.

I've received flies from ness. Well see what today's mail brings. That said... they will NOT be getting sent out this week. I am working out of a school for our spring break camp so I won't have a chance to sneak over to the post office.

Learn to work excel! Entirely in jest... but where I am now all of our "young" ones are here earlier, and stay later. From experience Loyalty to a company only earns you making less money than you could have made somewhere else. But seriously.. if work starts at 8. lets start at 8. When I get to work I get after it and get my stuff done while other people sit around and have the "water cooler talk time" that can take an hour or more. For a lot of us, especially in my age range it just comes down to I want to be paid for my time, effort and skill, that simple.

I didn't check the mail yesterday when I got home at 1015, but I'll get an updated list to everyone soon of who's flies I've received.

Having a college degree has definitely allowed me to obtain positions that I would not have been able to without it, though it doesn't always matter. I've never been paid more for additional education experience, and have been declined interviews for better paying jobs than I have now because it "over qualifies me" 3 years into employment with a small town outside of KC we hired a new maintenance supervisor with an associates degree as that was the required education level for the position. As the recreation supervisor I was required to have a bachelors. He was hired in at over 3.50 more an hour than I made because that's the "going rate for a supervisor in the metro." Each year that we got our 2% cost of living raise that number grew larger. They were unable to ever "get me to at least the same level" since we were the same level within the parks department and that's why I left. I was a 0 sum position meaning that I needed to bring in a profit that 100% off set the cost of my position and did so. His position provided no revenue for the city and was further supplemented by mine. Yes I have a "stable" job. I've been with the city of Springfield for 6 months now. The two supervisors that would be the next step up have been here for 10+ years with no plans to move up or on... And at the year mark, sorry but the 1.09 raise does not make it worth not continuing to keep options open.

I was MSU. I was able to escape with $0 in student debt between working my way through, having my graduate degree paid for with a GA position and a few other things. Work Remotely, yes it sounds nice. Truly, good luck. My Father in Law recently had a friend who owns a large construction company in town who wanted to talk about coming on to their team. When I actually spoke to him he essentially said "go to insurance estimating school, work for state farm for a couple years and then we can talk about bringing you on low level" Not the same thing, and at this point I don't need a 3 year commitment to hopefully get into your business. and start back lower again than where I am now working for the city, with no guarantee that would anything could or would work out. Really it comes down to you can have 0 skills and get a job/career that pays X, got get "the degree" work the entry level, and then try to move to something that pays 1.25X, and no real avenue to continue advancing in sight. For most people the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and I can't blame them. Twice in my life I have been overlooked for a promotion because "You would have been our top choice but this new person who applied is great, and we think that a new perspective would be beneficial to the company" I then train that person on the job as I'd been doing it in the absence of their predecessor only to see them leave within a year, and the organization chooses to move forward without filling that position again. It comes down to this. If professional companies want to keep skilled individuals around they need to create really training programs that teach the job, and teach it well how they want it to be done. Not all the corporate mumbo jumbo that everyone does. And then give time for the person to learn. They need to pay enough that when someone is learning a new job or career they aren't putting so much pressure on themselves that they crumble and have no other option that they end up not doing well and wash out therefore validating all of the poor training and pressure that was being put on them from above. Value your employees and they will value you as the employer.

Just read through this whole thing. From a perspective that is probably a little different than most here, no one posting in this is really wrong. As someone in their mid thirties now that found this board when I was in my low 20's my life is quite a bit different. I graduated college, graduated grad school, worked a career for 6 years with no real perspective to move up within my city or anything near without having 10 more years of experience. Did a total 180 and moved to a sales role at the start of 2020, not a great year for that. I was very good at it though and was number 24 in the country at my role with a nationwide life insurance agency. I barely cleared 36k that year. That's when the wife and I decided it was time to do something different. We traveled, worked odds and ends, paid our bills while working a hell of a lot less and still making the same money. Surprise kid comes, settle down in careers but of course can't find child care. Have to move back to MO. I worked in a restaurant for 16 months before taking a job with the city of Springfield again. I was 250+ applications in and had one interview. This was even for low paying jobs that just weren't necessarily in my field but were responsibility adjacent. I now make 3.00 more an hour than I did 5 years ago when I left the city of Pleasant Hill to try and make more money. The professional work life has not kept up with cost of living (we know this), and minimum wage will always continue to increase. What's the point of working harder and being more stressed to not make much more if you don't need to. Young staff are the same now as they were 10 years ago when I was working with a different city. Low paying jobs get low work employees. How we as managers and supervisors adjust to that is up to us. Especially as we see how the job market has changed. I known what I value and much of that is time home with my son and wife, or outdoors which is why people relished the work from home... Which is what BOTH my Father in Law and step dad have done for over the last 10 and 30 years respectively. Yet they will both question why our house isn't as clean as theirs, or why we grab lunch out more often than they do, or why there is always laundry to be done. These are ALL questions they have asked us when visiting our house. Yet I'm here working two jobs and about to pick up a third. Coming out of high school now, I would absolutely not go to college, but that was the only thing that we were taught to do. Go to college, get a job, pay your bills, take a vacation or two a year and have a hobby or two, except the money for those jobs is NOT there, and the positions to move up are still not available. As life has become more expensive individuals aren't retiring as early, and career tracks are not what they were. Managers complain about job hoppers to go find more money? Pay more. Period. I know that the money has to come from somewhere but it's hard for a business to complain about lack of qualified employees if they won't pay for them.

I've 7/10 tied. Got Flies from Ham, The billets and Daryk in so far. (and myself mostly) so we are about half way there.

Since I have some flies, and Mr. Cold bailed. Still send 10 and everyone will get 10. Yall... I had to take college algebra twice. I have excel for math in my life now, not splitting flies for a swap. I. Am. Not. That. Smart.

I'm in the same boat as @FlysmallieI think I have a pattern picked out. The wife leaves town Friday night and gets back Sunday morning. Won't have the toddler boy until Saturday morning. If I can avoid falling asleep at 830 on Friday night I might just be able to knock these out. Looking at doing a little skating caddis number.

it should work just fine!

@BilletHead I have you two's and Ham's flies in my possession.