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Found that even the floro is not quite as good at that as mono. Also don't think I got the sudden directional change when cranking with floro and hitting something. Went back to 8# and 10# XT for warts (not that I ever get on a wart bite anymore). This brings up the advantage of using all of one model and size of spinning reel. If I end up not liking the braid I will just pop on a spool for floro.

Good to see you over here Tim, and thanks. Beck has all the cool toys, including that darn garage. Have to look at all that room every time I am at Schooner. Expect to do a ton of adjustments to these animals, lips, size, angles, stock (flat vs. round), weight and balance, etc.

Joe...I get the reasons for the leader. Guess it just brings up the big Q of why bother with the braid at all if I am still going to have my fish buttoned to fluoro? Probably the only real way to answer that Q is to try it.

Geez T...sorry to hear your wife got to keep the boat. Don't forget to check the nothing looking swings in the creeks for the grub. Not the pretty ones, but the ugly deep ones, ones you can't just see by looking at the bank. Several of those from Mill back to the Cows.

For those doing it...if you are throwing braid on your grub rod, are you using some fluoro leader, or going straight to the head with the braid? Seems like it would defeat the purpose (getting grubs and fish out of deep trees) to spool 10# or 20# braid, then run a 6# fluoro leader, but I also have bad memories of braid, knots, tie ups, etc. Picked up some of the new Suffix in 20# (6# diam) and some of their gold package braid in 10# (4# diam) yesterday. Have tied a few knots, played with it a little and am relatively impressed, at least sitting in the basement not the boat. Much less visible than the old power pro or spiderwire. Not exactly limp, but fishable. Thinking about running the 10# right to the grub, maybe using the 20# for dragging little rigs with a leader.

Think I would stay where you are familiar, find some windy clear water around 13HWY and soak a stickbait or run that grub thru trees on deep swings. If you are set on a river I would go to Viola on the Kings...crank ends of turns, little ways into the bigger cuts, flat areas near swings/transitions, jigs on transition places, sticks on ends & in pockets from there towards Ark if the color allows. Maybe some crappie in the swings if that is your pleasure. Sounds like a lot, but the water up there is small enough to make that a morning's work. Please give us a report either way. Like some have said, there are no fish in the Kings.

Sadly, I ususally hurt myself when handling rules. Maybe I will be able to put that one up there with "don't flip that stupid jig spoon into those boat slips". Have one 6yo and 9yo, just thinking it might be a way to put them on some roaming K's in June, even if not big, or maybe some fish in bluff cedars. Have caught a bunch of little K's over the years in those places on 3" dingers, crappie tubes & mini jigs, etc., just fiddling around in the afternoons. Even if it only sort of works, but kicks in a few gills or crappie I would be ok with it. Would prefer it to drifting crawlers, don't like to chance hurting fish that way if I can help it. The old one is a trooper, her first keeper was a 16 & 1/2" jaw swimming a grub and only screamed and cried for about 10 minutes when I stuck the yellow magic in my hand. She is spoiled that way, thinks every grub should come back with a brown fish wrapped around it. However, the 6yo Dude is still working up to that level of endurance.

Have intentions of trying a few of those options myself. Ran across a crappie forum where the posters were poo-poo'ing the bass guys for the long rod and fixed bobber. Those boys fish with floats basically every trip. Going to try some of their tricks, worst it can do is not work. Hoping to dial it in well enough to use off gravel, around schoolies for my kids with a downsized arrangement. Thinking about trying what is basically a weighted fly vs. a jig. Some of the guys who tie and fish taney could probably describe it better. Basically wrapping lead around something like a drop shot or finesse hook, then tying in some flashabou, feathers, etc. Anyway, it is too cold here to even get out and change lower fluids, swap the trim switch I need to, and thinking about this beats not doing that. Just nasty.

That was the easiest idea I had. Will have to try it, can't be any more disastrous than heating lips...

Swimming minnows and a smoke or pearl grub will catch any fish that is in this lake, whites included. Don't count out a spoon either, not just the 1/2oz white jig spoon, but something along the Cleo line.

A little early given the weather?

Have to ask...how did you get the rattles out? Can think of a couple of ways but am afraid both would require band aids. That is sort of the same direction I was heading with the float foam that did not happen.

Ok, I was wrong about the big kentucky. Those are actual sea monsters.

I just figured the big mama K knocked it out for him. Would easily give up a tooth for one like that.

Well put. Am sure those things work swell in Europe with their teeny little cars, but my tow vehicle barely makes it through the curve on some in the KC metro area. Ran into another gentleman who has 2 Excursions (I'm on #2, wish I still had both) at a Quik Trip. Had a great sticker that read "Help! There is a smart car stuck in my grill!".

Bill, great info and much appreciated as always. Thinking the f&f might, with super much adjustment, be a way to get the kids on some open water fish this summer.

She is an absolute sea monster. I think you may have released the Kraken!

I think you hurt my neck with the slap on that one.

Sounds like a bad time to be in the roundabout!

Few notes and pics from the big balsa wake bait project. Things I learned: 1) Big jointed baits are a royal pain to through wire. Wired the first one, then went to eyes for initial builds so as to actually get more than one completed. 2) Redfin factory tails are solid, sinking, plastic! Adding a balsa tail is easy and floats the bait higher, but...also floats the back of the front section, which may not help. Thinking this tweak needs to be combined with a lip tweak for the fin, foaming the head (which I have not yet tried), or additional weight at rear of head section. Still hoping to replace a lip, but have other things more pressing. 3) The solid body baits were fairly easy to build, probably should have wired them vs. eyes. Have real hopes for those two. Have a couple of other solid minnow styles I purchased last year that wake surprisingly well, especially if you have tried waking a solid fin or Long A. 4) The jointed bait I wired with SS wire produces a significant rubbing squeak. Closest comparison would be a very well loved and squeaky buzz bait. Interesting. 5) Took an educated shot, basically, with regard to lip style and width. Have a couple baits I am happy with on face value, but have concerns about their lips impairing the action. 6) Now know more than I care to about the anatomy of a jointed redfin, and am still not sure why it does what it does, in the way it does. It seems like a bait made for trolling, that sort of accidentally works for waking. It is such a "solid" bait, obviously designed for big fish like stripers. Have not had a chance to do more than float test them yet. Will follow up when that happens. Hope it is an interesting local topic, if not feel free to let me know. In the jointed pic, the top fin has had a tail transplant. Would have liked that tail to be a little longer and perhaps thinner in hindsight. Also have a shot that compares size, design, etc. to a couple of the high $ balsa baits available. Did not want to post that publicly from concern of perhaps outing someone's secret bait. In fact, there is one of those baits I would prefer folks not see at all because it runs like its price, and I have high hopes for it this spring. Maybe it will take our minds off the f&f for a while. Go warm rain and mid 40 degree nights!

How did you manage the f&f on the 8' rod? Kicking a ton of ideas around on that thing.

Nicely done.

Guess with the lake low we may as well pretend it really is Dale Hollow and break out the downriggers while we are at it. Thanks Bill & Joe for the info on the braid. Went to 6# seaguar for most of my grubs several years ago, vertical or other. Can't really say I lose any more, but definitely more bites. Am used to braid that looks like well rope or anchor chain, will look into the newer stuff. Was just the first mention of fishing braid that deep in the clear water that I can remember. Either deep grub presentation, or even the old swimming hair jig & tail sound like a decent idea right now. I'm with you Denjac...never go out without that 1/4oz grub, and ditto the dock cables, esp when trying to vertical fish around them. Can't get anything off those wires. Used to hold the little brown jig in that place of esteem, but no more. Hold the 1/2oz white spoon a very close second to the grub. Not giving up on the slip float for the f&f, ran into some references on a crappie forum and another brown fish article detailing use of 7' rods and slip bobbers. Thill TG Waggler floats, if remembering correctly. Also have some fly vise ideas for the fly part. Course nothing would be wrong with the fish just up and moving on to eating sticks, grubs, and rigs either.

Bill, that is the same I have always heard regarding the floats. But you know how bass fisherman are...always trying to make something better. Sometimes you end up right (like painted rogues or screw lock shake heads), and sometimes you mess up the beauty of something like a smoke grub on a 1/4oz head by overthinking it and bolting on eyes, extra flake, etc. Would think the fly deal might be even better to the east at Bull Shoals. Is the braid thing new for the deep grub? Always figured it was too visible, but have used it for c-rig main line.

Never have caught many, but get lots of bite offs from Feb-late Mar on hula grubs, little brown jigs, fishing bluff ends from a couple miles either way of Viola park. Also when carolina rigging on the deep gravel inside turns thru the same 4-5 miles of water. Usually 10-20' on the ends, out much deeper on the gravel places, closer to the taper into the channel. Take it with the proverbial salt, as it is from a dedicated not interested in initentionally fishing for eyes dude.