Wayne SW/MO

What happened to the King and War Eagle? I agree there is no need, but I know some guys from Arkansas who move freely across the border to sample new waters. I'm sure there are quite a few more that I'm not familiar with.

First off there is no use in discussing a C & R only on stream smallmouth because it not going to happen, not to mention its not needed. The main issue is and has been quality and yes a state wide will work because the streams, while having little regional problems, tend to be the same in the Ozarks, whether its in AR, OK, or MO. If you have information on the Neosho's, good solid info, than share it. I can't find any definitive study that makes the claim, or supports one, that they are smaller genetically. There is apparently conflicting information that they differ genetically from other stream smallmouth. You can never expect a fish to maintain a color pattern across a wide area, because they don't. Trout don't do this and neither do largemouth bass, and if I remember right Al Agnew has pointed out that smallmouth don't. So at this point its probably best to get the best deal we can and apply it to all stream smallmouth in this state.

Confusing? Where's your source that shows that the MDC stocked Tennessee strain smallies? If I'm not mistaken I had at one time reference to the fact that they never had. They haven't in fact stocked smallmouth for decades. You seem to assume that all the fish, native smallmouth, in Missouri streams are Tennessee, unless its in the Spring river or Elk watersheds. I would like to see your source for that. I don't see what else the MDC could do for the Neosho, they don't stock in their watershed, and so far neither has OK above Grand, and they are monitoring the spots, which you seem to oppose. The Elk is an SMA and they have looked at other areas, so its not as if they are ignoring them. The fact is that you are apparently the only one who believes the Neosho should have preferential treatment. Given the distance you live from the SWMO streams, you should not assume that those from the east don't fish this way on occasion too.

I think we have to assume that in regards to the MSA any size limits is aimed at the general public and not the organization. There are two ways that most fish are caught and kept, and that's from a single point or a short wade and in order to get 3 15" fish under these circumstance they will have be very lucky. I don't think the idea behind it is to produce wallbangers, but big fish photos.

You might try the Outlet store. They have some good reels cheap which could get you started. Just make sure that the right hand spool knob will stop the spool.

Probably a good reason for that, if people see wall to wall fisherman many would stay home and Roger's and the DNR would lose money!

Here's one for you Andy. "Research done at Oklahoma State University found that the native smallmouth in northeast Oklahoma, in the foothills of the Ozarks, are a little bit different genetically than smallmouth native to southeast Oklahoma, in the Ouachita Mountains," Gilliland said. "And both of those groups are different from smallmouth bass in other parts of Oklahoma and Missouri." I thought you would like that one. While I have your attention what leads you to believe that the Neosho doesn't grow as large as other native, stream smallmouth.?

Seems a little early to me.

The 65 bridge has been the center of the LOZ snagging since they built Truman I believe. I'm not familiar with the area, but I think they do some good in the Four Rivers area also. You might check that out.

I'm sure they are few and far between hank, but I've lived in this state long enough to know there are those who would quibble about 10/20!

Down at the rope swing would be perfect.

I can't follow you, you seem to be all over the place. First off I would think you would welcome a 15" minimum if it would end up being C & R for the Neosho fish? Chief apparently doesn't agree with you that the resource is endangered, and given the fact he lives there and you don't I'll take his word for it. A for experts in this area, I've fished both, not sure if you have, and I find little difference between the areas. In fact the variations in flow and water quality makes a bigger difference in both areas. Eventually you will learn that stream size tends to limit the numbers of bigger fish and I'm sure that accounts for smaller Neosh fish. The Glover and the Mountain Fork used to provide some good size fish, and I believe they were Neosho's, I've fished both. One last thing, the Neosho is a smallmouth, and according to the the latest DNA info, just a color variant.

I can't speak for Dan, but I'm sure that those who keep them are being given equal consideration, as they should. Regulations can benefit them too once the fish gain the new length requirement. Theoretically there will be just as many fish, only the average will be larger. Something not often mentioned, in regard to increased creel size, is that there's also the added benefit of increasing the spawning group which can speed population recovery after negative environmental events.

Not sure what you mean by regulations, concerning what? There's not much to scout if you're talking water, its pretty straight forward and mostly riverine. You won't need a trout permit there.

Yeah, I've been complaining about that since the DNR joined in the destruction of the Niangua, in lieu of protecting it, in the 80's. The strange thing about it is that if there were so many fishermen that you couldn't enjoy canoeing they would be all over it with regulations. I suppose you can't expect an agency that doesn't warn the public about crappy, unhealthy water, for fear of losing a dollar to care about preserving a river, even a unique one.

The low profiles are more comfortable to hold, but they hold less line. How much line you need would depend on what you're going to use it for. Al is certainly right on about the rod. Once you decide I would come back here for more detailed instructions, unless you can get some hands on help.

I think too many people either don't know, or have forgotten that deer don't always run. They are more than likely to confront an irritate that they don't fear. I suspect that living with coyotes and large bobcats that can harm them gives them a sense of what to fear, and what not to fear. We can't assume that the ranger understood what was actually going on.

That's the reel I learned on, my son and my grandson. Its probably best if you can get some personal instruction from someone who's proficient if possible. As to what reels are best for beginners, I don't think there is one, but there are some that would probably be a challenge. Virtually all of the better reels are fine, but they all have little differences in adjustments that might make some better than others for you. At the risk of controversy, I would recommend the timeless Abu Garcia C3. They probably have more range in adjustments than many reels and aren't as touchy as many. You will also be able to always find a use for it. I still use its predecessors occasionally and they're pushing 40 years.

I agree and it could be a way for the MDC to avoid a lot of controversies over the selection or rejection of various streams. It would certainly trump any worries about the smaller streams. I think you're right about the Elk Chief. My only concern with the Elk being the main target of their efforts is the canoe traffic. I wonder if it will skew any results. The Niangua doesn't get the attention it probably deserves, but with the canoe circus through the summer I'm afraid it would be hard to document..

The Alvey was my first thought too Wrench, but????

In line reel????

Have they dropped the watchmen service or is this in addition too?

Sounds good, but I would have liked to see some areas farther west included such as something in the Elk area, like Indian perhaps and something farther north towards Joplin.

According the article the rabbit season was open and it was legal to hunt in the park. The owner says that they didn't release the dogs in the park. I'm just addressing what the article says happened, and I can't see where the was any reason for a deer to run in circles. A doe will run slowly to draw a predator away from a fawn, but she's not going to have have one now. The dog owner says there's no where that a deer could be hemmed in, and you have to think he's probably right given that its in an area that normally wouldn't be fenced. I don't think anyone who's owned beagles believes they can run very far flat out, what it would take to run a deer, very far. I know they train them to push deer, but that's different than running them. Like Wrench said, what did he accomplish?? he sure didn't SAVE a deer.