Phil Lilley

Thanks for the report Bill. I talked to Bill on the phone before I read this... there's more to share and it'll come out in time. Lots of info given. I think there's room for discussion on our tailwater. I know the Corp will never allow anything put in the tailwater below the dam= no way. And they have good reason. But digging the "channel" out from below outlet #1 to Rebar shouldn't be a problem. Money- they made it clear there's no money for any project like this for Taney. But we're not talking about alot of money. As a matter of fact, I bet we can get most of the work donated. Liability- if anyone doesn't want to do something, they yell "liability". But if you want to do something bad enough, you find a way around it OR acknowledge that there's really no liability issue at all, which I don't think there is. We're not talking about 4 feet. We're talking about 2-3 feet tops. And again, it was 4 feet deep over 30 years ago and it's taken all this time to wash in. What do you do with the rock? Good question that the Corp and MDC can work out. Move it to the bank? Take it out altogether? If I had to bite off one project, this would be it.

Deep- MDC doesn't recognize any natural reproduction on Taney so they aren't going to close any season to protect something that doesn't happen. And the Corp isn't going to let anyone put boulders in the stream anywhere close to the dam face. They may down further but I don't know what that magic distance is. ryno- the hatchery improvements didn't change any water flow nor Do levels into the lake, I don't think. I'll check. The Corp injects O2 into the turbines, before or after (?) before water enters the tailwater. Nothing has changed there. They try to keep the O2 levels about 4-5 part per million which is nominal levels for survival. I seriously doubt the MDC is considering changing any regulations. But what they are ready to do is change the habitat.

Didn't see the article- thanks for posting it. I've heard of the difussers but alike you said, this issue has already been studied and I'd think difussers would have been looked at. But evidently not if they're studying it again. I think it would be great but all efforts up to now have been stymied by a lack of ongoing "maintenance funding" of any proposed project.

Bill Bird from Springfield keeps his boat here in the fall for just one thing- sucker gigging. They go out at dusk or after and usually get their limit which I think is 25 suckers. They can't go above Fall Creek but find plenty below. It is fun and they usually eat them the night of, sometimes they cook them on our pavilion with potatoes. Makes a long night though.

I brought alittle salmon home to share... well alot. 100 pounds of hot smoked. 100 pounds of cold smoked. There's an outfit in King Salmon that buys sockeye from the commerical fishermen in Bristol Bay and smokes over 600,000 pounds every year- yes 600k pounds! I bought it wholesale, already packaged and ready to eat. It's in the refrig and it's advised to not freeze it unless you need to keep it past Christman. http://www.aksmokehouse.com/ Here's their website. As you can see, Heidi has won several awards for her smoked fish. We're selling it for the markey price of $30 per pound. We have full filets which weigh from 1 to 2 pounds and smaller pieces in the hot smoked variety of less than a pound. The cold smoked is certified also called lox and is a staple and Europian tables each holiday. So send me a PM or email and we'll see how we can get you some! All profit will go to our local Big Brothers, Big Sisters Chapter.

No- we've already asked them about raising the level of the bottom at the cable to create a riffle and they said it's too close to the dam face. The DO issue, I think, will have to be solved at the dam itself in the way of injection or drawing water from higher in the lake where DO is higher. But then you have a temperature issue. Don't think the DO problem can be solved for those fish in the first 1/2 mile at least by improving the habitat. Just I'd love to be proven wrong!

Don't really want to make it an ethical question. Can't. MDC has already shown they aren't interested in managing ethics so going at it from that direction is fruitless. But snagging big browns during low DO periods is harmful and potentially lethal and that should be a consideration. Outlet #2 just happens to be the #1 place where this happens and for reasons that have nothing to do with skill and/or intent of the angler. The best angler will still foul hook a good percentage of trout when drifting a scud through the flow. Just too many fish in a small area. Spread them out, make it harder to run a line through the area, give the trout a place to hide and be safe from anglers.

There's a meeting tonight but it's invite only. I'm not going but I know several guides who are. The Corp is concerned about flow- that's true. But I believe we can improve habitat without adversely affecting flow. One thing they will oppose is adding anything to the tailwater that will impede flow like boulders or gravel bars close to the dam face. Any structure that will cause back pressure on the flow and turbines will affect power production. Dredging, on the other hand, does just the opposite. I hate to pick on the outlets but I believe more big trout are harmed by anglers snagging and stressing large browns in the outflow. If the flow of outlet #2 was dispersed evenly and not channeled as it is now, fish would not be herded up and easily snagged as they are now. Also, other considerations can be explored to make it harder to fish this area, ie. wood structures in and around the flow area. Yes- make is harder to fish! Right now it's like shooting fish in a barrel, no skill involved. I think a study on freshwater shrimp is in order. Come up with ways to create the ideal conditions for shrimp to grow. I know- that's pie in the sky thinking because not much is known about why gammarus do well in certain lakes and streams and why they don't in others. Interesting, not sure if I mentioned this but back in June we were exploring a lake up from camp in Alaska and I found thousands of gammarus around a small dock and some sort of pondweed, large ones. I'm sure the lake almost freezes solid for four months out of the year. They are not deep lakes. Imagine if Table Rock has a viable population of shrimp- what they would do for the fishery as a whole! To answer the comments on generation and flow... it's taken how many years to fill in the channel/holes? Back in the 70's you could not wade across the lake at, above or below outlet #2 because it's go over your waders. That's 30 years. I think a well thought out plan would help the tailwater- make it a 10 or 20 year plan and revisit it after that time to see if additional work is needed.

Question: What can be done to enhance the upper mile of the tailwater in regards to trout. Examples: Dissolved Oxygen Improvement, Fish Habitat. It would be great if there were examples given via a website or other valid information.

I am hoping that they use some of that money for enhancing the area just below Table Rock Dam in the way of deepening the channel, creating good, constructive habitat for big trout and other things that only a fish biologists would know how to do.

Benn watching this discussion... nothing in this topic that's positive or informative to anglers. I would ask that personal grudges and complaints to handled personally and not on a public forum where names are not used.... or take it to another forum that allows this type of conversation. I'm not taking sides nor do I have any opinion or dealings with anyone involved, just ending this before it gets even more ugly.

What color worked? Did you notice the wind helping?

Buy-Sell-Trade would work.

I think you can say that for anyone who sinks brush in a lake or pond.

Terry- there's a huge difference in big fish here and big fish there. The small fish on the Naknek would kick the butt of any big fish on Taney. You don't "walk" a big fish on the Naknek. You'll never land one if you don't make him work. If you let them rest, they'll just go to your backing again and again.

This should be interesting... I've already heard from a couple guides who think trees offer little value to a fishery. But I'll let them sound off on the subject.

Only got out for a couple of hours from 3:30 till 5:30 pm. Fished with Dan Hoy from Bass Pro and a couple of Naturalist from BP. They are working on a plan to develop an aquarium depicting Lake Taneycomo in their new eatery, "The Fish House" at the Landing. So we looked at some scuds, sow bugs, plantan, rocks and moss. And they caught some trout. We waded in just above the ramp... there were alot of people from the Big Hole upstream so we avoided the crowds. Not the fish though. There were plenty down by the ramp. We did have some trouble catching anything- using 7x flourocarbon, several varieties of midges and scuds- they'd look but no takers. I was trying to show Diana how best to create a dead drift. They started a generator I think about 4:30. Water came up and the trout really started eating. I tied on a San Juan and it was all over. They'd move 3 feet for it and even took it on a swing. She was having trouble fighting some of the ones she hooked cause of the 7x and they were fairly large rainbows but brought several to hand. Water only ran for a short time, then started to drop out but the trout kept feeding. I left them for an Options banquet at 5:30. Heard there's been alot of big browns caught out of #2 outlet already this fall. Several 14 to 18 pounders. Heard it 3rd hand but the source is very reliable. Sounds like a great brown season.

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STS03/710110351 http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STS03/710110352

C-SPORT OPTICAL, 314-963-7567. 8920 Manchester Rd St Louis, MO 63144 This guy is the best at good sunglasses. It's where I buy all mine. Chris Vogler.

Forgot this one.

I don't know where you'd get them but I still see people using cow bells and doing well. There's alot of leaves in the water right now and it's only going to get worse as fall marches on... you'll have to either deal with them or stay with power bait.

These are some pictures taken by Rick Osenga, a friend of mine who joined us the last week. He's retired and loves photography and thought his Alaska trip was an experience of a lifetime. Still lots of sockeye (reds). Party Time All bears are at Brooks. Margot Creek. Caleb with a nice char (Dolly). Moose affair at Margot. Mountains are Margot. Waterfall at 6,000 feet. Margot. River mouth at Brooks. Back on Naknek. Me and my son, Caleb. To the east at sunset, glacier mountains. Sunset to the west. Moonlite night at camp. None of these images were in no way touched up.

wildminnow- in hornyheadchub's defense, he was asking a good question, referring to a potential dangerous situation at a marina. taxidermist was "venting" about one experience he had a shop. All of us have had bad experiences at places- right? We've been on both ends of it- have a bad day at work and rub a customer wrong and your place is marked.. not that it's a bad place just not perfect. I can attest to this fact at my shop. I have bad days and am not the most friendly person and those I "help" walk away with a bad impression of Lilleys' Landing. Guess what I'm trying to say is that both taxidermist and divestudy have the right to defend their positions and I thank divestudy for entering into the conversation... I hope the thread continues in a constructive manner. We may have to consider adding a new topic - diving.

You know I hate sharing forwards cause they usually aren't what they seem... I suspected as much. Now I don't know if I should delete it...