Phil Lilley

"time to time" would be a ten year permit. The only replenishment would be from Short and Cooper Creeks, which if you looked closely at either "creek" there are runoff only and there's not much gravel in them. It's all been washed out already. So whatever gravel they take out, it's gone. What will replenish will be silt. I'm not arguing your point about lakes-- I tend to agree. But this is alittle different. My point would be it is irreversible. Any question about it hurting the lake? Error on the side of precaution.

No- wish I could. I've been twice- lots of fun. Gonna be out-of-pocket.

Guys- Mike Biggs is over minimum flow. Lee Schoonover is the person you need to email for the dredging. My mistake. Resend your emails to Lee. Sorry. Mike will be confused! lee.a.schoonover@usace.army.mil

MDC calls it, "Put & Take" or in the case of trophy areas, "Put, Grow & Take".

Don't just post here on this forum where your words don't mean much... Send Lee Schoonover your opinion - lee.a.schoonover@usace.army.mil (not Mike Biggs) It will count!

Sorry- I made an error. It's not empire, it's Table Rock Asphalt. I delete that part of the post. Too many issues- getting them mixed up.

Still hearing people are catching walleyes- good walleyes- on creek chubs and stick baits during generation at night from the powersite side of the lake (bank fishing). Anyone know of this personally? Tight-lipped, huh!?

I hope I'm not banned for saying this, but Carp from clean water taste much like Trout, I.E. somewhat tasteless. laugh.gif Not banned... I do take that as a challenge. I like challenges! I'll send you a personal invite next time we fix trout, Wayne.

yes it is.

This is bigger that I thought. I still have requests out for documentation but have rec'ved more calls from fisheries/MDC saying MDC might "roll over" on this one. Fisheries is definately against the move above the bridges and site a study that's 10 years old stating this part of the lake is crucial for the gammarus population on Taney. The political powers at MDC say the study is out dated and dredging may not hurt the fishery. So throw out all I said about what MDC may say about this permit. They may ok the move which would, according to fisheries, devestate the gammarus population and hurt our trout fishery.

Downtown- only place. Brian Shaffer has been going down to just above Bass Pro to the old gravel bar and doing pretty well off the bar. Lots of trout gathering esp if they are running alot of water in the evening. You can boat/fly fish and do well below Fall Creek.

FYI... they are still catching whites at Moonshine. 8 weeks now. But don't tell the guides I told you!

Interesting factors- #1 This has been kept quiet. Haven't seen it in the papers. Notice went out in May and the public notice sent by without any comments. #2 As far as I know, the city of Branson has not commented. Don't know if they even know. #3 TRA dredged upper Taneycomo back in the glory days (60's & 70's and well into the 80's). Did it hurt the fishery then? #4 Just how many "bugs" live in this part of the lake? Midges- yes. Scuds - haven't seen many. I understand they don't do well in water over 6 feet deep. BUT back in the 60's they could be found THICK down in the Branson area. I have a friend who worked at the Sammy Lane Dock and he said they used to cling to the foam floatation. They used to jump and knock them off and the trout would go into a feeding frenzy. He used to catch 5 pound rainbows all day off the dock. That was mid to late 60's. On the surface, it sounds like a bad idea. I'm still waitng on a reply from MDC on their offical position and why.

Table Rock Asphalt Co has applied for a renewal permit to take gravel from Taneycomo... expanding their territory up past highway 65 bridge to above Lilleys. We are about mile 523.6- they want to go up to mile 524.1. Here's the link to the permit site. http://www.swl.usace.army.mil/regulatory/00156-11.htm I just heard about it. If it was in the papers, it was missed. Talk to Lee Schoonover and he said any comments are still helpful in their decision, even though the comment period has ended. He said TRA and MDC are meeting right now and hashing out their differences. He also said that the Corp is the deciding agency and if MDC feels taking gravel in this area of the lake hurts the fishery, they wouldn't allow dredging. He also said TRA may pull their request if MDC provides this evidence. I honestly don't know enough facts about it to say one way or the other. I will dig alittle deeper and see what I can find out. More later...

Powersite will but with the higher level in BS, their effeintcy will decrease. The more water in BS decreases head pressure. Table Rock? Don't know for sure. But only when Ark Fish & Game stepped up and became a partner- a paying partner- this became a reality. I guess no one in Missouri was willing. Beaver? I guess that was Ark F&G decision.

These are some I found when I was restoring my lost files the other day. They aren't big enough for desk top background though.

Note- I sent in an email to Mike Biggs last Friday in hopes to get some clarification on some of my notes... there are holes and I apologize. I hope to get an answer from Mike soon and will relay any more info. In attendance (more or less) - Mike Biggs, CORP Planning, Environmental and Regulatory Division Chuck Pennell, Taney Co Presiding Commissioner (called for the meeting) Ron Herschend, Taney Co Commissioner, West Danny Strahan, Taney Co Commissioner, East Maynard Wallace, former Mo Rep running for senate Mark Oliver, Assistant Fisheries Chief, Ar. State Fish & Game Total of 38 in attendance. Biggs started the meeting going over the $800,000+ study that congress authorized in 2001 on the affects of a minimum flow below Bull Shoals and Norfork Dams. Increasing the minimum flow below Bull Shoals, they would have to add 5 feet to the "flood pool" or level over present power pool of 654, increasing it to 659. Any impact on roads, ramps, beaches, docks within this 5 feet would be remedied and paid for by the Arkansas Fish & Game. Any impact above the 659 level would be given consideration for "aid". Empire Electric would be paid a one-time buy out of $9m. They will suffer loss at the Powersite Plant because of the rise in power pool level. The $9m buy out means Empire can't pass this loss onto its customers. Southwest Power Administration will be given a "credit" of whatever it’s estimated they will lose because of minimum flow. SPA maintains the dams- and credit will offset part of this maintenance, and the same as Empire, this credit is given so that SPA can't pass on this loss to the consumer. A year ago, MF was a dead issue. Then two sponsors or partners stepped up to the plate and committed to pick up some of the "expense" of MF- that's what changed the outcome. Arkansas Fish & Game agreed to pay for the impact of both lakes and congress agreed to pay power providers for their loss. Time table- No money has been allocated to continue the project in '07. But in 2008, it is possible that this will be picked back up by congress. It was stated that MF would be implemented by 2010. Economic Impact - $130,000 to the bad -- $3.5m to the good annually. This encompasses a 2 hour radius of the tailwaters, including all of Bull Shoals and Norfork Lake Regions. I'm not going to get into the comments of the meeting. Most comments by residents were short sighted and self seeking, especially by some politicians. Some basically called the study bogus and the Corp liars... not much you can say to that. Some honestly didn't believe the figures. I was amazed that they focused on the $130k loss instead of the $3.5m increase. The flood issue was a hot subject though. Their logic, and it is understandable, was that if you add 5 feet to the power pool that the lake would flood more often. The study findings show that there's a 1.8% high chance that the lake would flood at 675 with the new power pool level. That means the frequency of flooding isn't affected, only the duration. In this case, a road that's flooded at 675 will be under water 2-4 more days, for example. The positive impact is going to be on the fishing- both above and below the dams. More water in the conservation pool will help spawning periods. It's too bad MDC wasn't there to address this. I made this point at the end of the meeting- said I was amazed no one had brought it up since most in the room fished. Links - http://www.swl.usace.army.mil/planning/wrminflow.html http://www.swl.usace.army.mil/planning/dra...dy_may_2006.pdf 75 day comment period ends August 18, 2006 Send comments to Mike Biggs at mike.l.biggs@usace.army.mil

When they generate down there, what do you do, John? Boat? I've fished there once- I think Cow Shoals but it's been along time ago. I'd like to get down there this fall.

Jeremy- Wayne meant Table Rock I think (TR). He was fishing from a boat on Taneycomo. Forgive me if I'm incorrect on Wayne's post.

Whatever you do will be the right thing, John. Blessings...

I didn't notice it as being a strong storm but we had some winds and a good rain a couple hours ago. Cooper Creek Resort's lower dock broke lose in the wind. The upper half piveted upstream and ended up against the upper dock. The lower fishing pier headed downstream. So we had an adventure with 2 of our pontoons and 3 of their jons getting it bad upstream and tied off. It was fun. More rain commin'.

Well, I finally had the best excuse to go fish under the lights last night... committed to take a friend who had been asking to go, badgering really. So we went. Put in at old 86 off 165 in Jake's Cove and headed to the diving bluffs (only place I know to go) and dropped the light about 9 pm. We were south of the point about 300 yards, a place I had not tried before and not having a depth finder, was a bit lost. Tied to a stickup close to the cliff bank and went out a cople hundred yards and dropped my anchor. But I still wasn't comfortable with the depth of the water- too shallow- less than 40 feet I think. But we sat till 1 am with little shad gathering. So we went out to the point and anchored in much deeper water. We immediately had more shad but at 3 am we called it quits- not enough shad in the light to even net bait. The lake was nice and so was the company. Breeze and the moon... and a few rude boater who wanted to play. I let them have it with my 1,000,000,000 lumis beam light and they left us alone.

Mocarp - we have our work cut out for us... gonna have to come up with some gormet recipes and have everyone over my house!

I beg to differ. Cooked properly, carp is just as good if not better tasting than most freshwater fish. With any fish, it depends on their diet, water quality and the way they are prepared and cooked. Case in point- my dad. He was raised in TX and had the same attitude about carp, although he never was a fisherman. I smoked some carp once and he loved it- and was very surprised when I told him what it was. He eats all the sucker and carp I've ever prepared and loves it.

Very good- thanks for sharing this. I'll leave it here for awhile and then pin it to the Carp Forum.