Mark

Awesome pics! Hope Mary is feeling better! Just curious Al, how do you handle people wade fishing on your property? Or does it just not happen in that part of the country? I've been playing some golf with Clint - he's on our league team - good guy!

I am definitely afraid the private ownership issue will come to a head now. And I am afraid the result will not be good for the public. I hope we never end up with regulations like Colorado and Wyoming where it's tough to go wade fishing without knowing the area - whether you are legal or not, this quarter mile is legal, the next quarter mile is not, you can only pass thru if you stay in your craft, etc. For me, the MO law isn't that difficult - don't access a stream thru private land, and stay in the stream bed and gravel bars below the normal high water mark. I pray we don't lose that right, but am certainly afraid we may well end up with private ownership of the streams. That's a sin IMO. Machosim on both sides is the cause of this incident.

The definition of who is allowed where on a stream is the high water mark on a navigatible stream - open to interpretation. Without knowing the facts, I have to wonder why the shooter didn't just walk away and call the cops, just as Zimmerman should have done. Simple answer - machoism!!! As for the political turn this thread has taken, I find it very sad and have lost respect for some. As I have said many times to friends that I disagree with politically, we could probably agree on 99% of our political views. Nothing worse than someone trying to tell me my views are all wrong and their view is all correct. The epitamy of narrowmindedness!! If you blame everything on Obama, and ignore the mess Bush II left us, then you are not a open minded thinker. I will agree our political system is a mess right now. Besides, Congress runs the country in today's world, not the president, and we all know how that is going. We have allowed Dems and Reps to divide us as a nation, when in fact, the majority of us, especially in the Midwest, are not that far apart politically.

OK - all makes sense Al. A short float trip from Two Rivers back to a camp where you both suggest would be perfect for our needs - short with lots of fishing.

Very good Twosheds! Definitely will check it out.

Is "Tief" short for Tiefenauer?

OK - I've camped at Logyard. We are wanting to go somewhere new. I haven't seen any of the river from Akers to Logyard. And we are going in middle of week so hopefully jetboats won't be too bad. We'll probably pick a FS campground and work upstream, in case we would shear a pin or break a prop, at least we can float back to camp. So I've narrowed it down to Jerktail or an access below Twin Rivers. Makes sense that there is more water below Two Rivers. My buddy is a little skittish in a canoe and not wanting to dump. Thanks for the advice and if any more advice out there, we would gladly consider. So much river I want to see. Looking forward to a new adventure

How is the fishing/scenery in that stretch? From what I've read on hear, Round Springs to Eminence is good fishing and great scenery. So in your opinion, the water below Round Springs would be too shallow for prop?????

A partner and I are heading down to Eminence area next week and wanting to fish the Round Springs area or below. We would like to camp near an access and camp out near my truck - not wanting to work that hard to set up and tear down camp daily nor spend all day for several days in a canoe (back and knees get sore!), so we are looking for a base camp instead of float camping. More of a relaxing trip than working hard everyday!! Thinking we could find a gravel bar within a 100 yards of an access so we can get to my truck if we need to go to town or go sightseeing. I have my canoe with 2.5 HP motor and hoping to find a place where we can fish upstream and downstream 2-3 miles each way. Can you recommend any access where there is plenty of water to use my motor to get around upstream and downstream? I need about 18" of water for my motor. I don't mind walking canoe thru a few shallow ripples, just don't want to walk thru long stretches all day long. I guess I am assuming there is plenty of water in that stretch at Round Springs and below. We don't necessarily have to camp near Round Springs. Williams Landing, Jerktail, or any access in that stretch would work if I can get my canoe upstream and downstream and back to base camp. I was thinking of Round Springs because we may want to do a short float one day (8-10 miles is about my daily limit) and maybe find a local to pay to help me shuttle my truck to a takeout and figure there will be people at Round Springs campground I may be able to talk into or I believe Carr's canoe rental is at Round Springs. It will be my first time on that stretch of the Current and have read the fishing and scenery is good. Any advice to suit our needs would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Mark

Williams Landing is mentioned in thread below. I can't find it on maps or mile by mile descriptions. Does it have another name? Would like to float that stretch next week. Thanks in advance.

Where is Williams Landing? I can't find it on the map or on mile by mile descriptions. Does it have another name?

Here's my suggestion - someone post the phone numbers and email addresses of MDC agent, prosecutor, and sheriff of the county that this case will fall under it's jurisdiction. Everyone on here flood their offices with phone calls and emails. That's about all we can do. I am wondering why this criminal's identity is being protected on here. He needs to be outed and someone knows his name.

Nice fish!! What's a float trip without a few mishaps!! You may be onto something with the barley/hops/malt/ and water mixture. I wonder what would happen if you added a little yeast? Were there any obstacles between Cane Bluff and Greer?

C'red - I read on previous post that you are familiar with the Salt River and Mark Twain Lake. A friend has a family farm that the Salt runs thru and downstream from Mark Twain. I don't know exactly how far downstream as I am not familiar with the area. We have often talked of fishing the Salt but it is a bit out of our way from SE MO and haven't taken a chance on an unfamiliar stream. Obviously, you have fished the Salt and had some luck. The only time I have seen the Salt it was definitely stained water. Is the Salt good smallmouth stream? Largemouth? Crappie? Bluegill? What could we expect to be the predominant catch? Do you fish it from canoe? Can you run a jet boat in the Salt? Or a canoe with a motor? Is there accesses for a day float? Friend's dad use to do well on Mark Twain many years ago but reading what few fishing reports I can find, it seems that the lake isn't as productive as it use to be. Do you do well crappie fishing on MTwain? We would be very interested in any advice or opinions on the Salt River and Mark Twain. We have often talked of fishing both but hate to go into it blind, so looking for help. Email if more convenient - mvogt@stegen.k12.mo.us Thanks, looking forward to hearing from you. Mark

My fav is black rooster tail with glitter on tail for Blue Ribbon. Second the minnow trap below Turner. Also below Turner, suggest for scouts pink and white power eggs - one jar of each and they can fish all day cheaply. And my personal go to cheap bait - a bag of frozen small salad shrimp ($1.50 for a bag of 30 in most grocery stores) fit perfectly on a #6 hook. Make sure they have enough weight to bounce along the botttom. If they aren't tying a few hooks throughout the day, they aren't fishing deep enough. Check out the new bait shop on AA between Turner and Whitten access. Great prices. Good for you taking a group of scouts - kuddos for making a difference in kid's outdoor expeeriences. Good luck and give us a report.

Good advice by all - I would definitely shorten the trip. I suggest Turner Mill to Riverton (16 miles) or Greer to Riverton (21 miles). The smallmouth water will be in the later part of the trip closer to Riverton. No disrespect to anyone, but we use Hufstedlers canoe rental in Riverton almost exclusively, and would make sense if you take out at Riverton with less time shuttling and your vehicle would be at takeout. Some rental places want you to be at the takeout at a specific time and can be a worry about getting to a specific spot on a strange river at a specific time. I understand not wanting to leave canoes unattended at accesses but Mike Jones at Hufstedler's will simply ask about what time will you be getting off the river and leave the canoe on the bank. His place is just a short walk from the river too, if you want to leave your vehicles at the store, although no one has ever messed with our vehicles on the Eleven Point anywhere. I just never like being on someone else's time schedule on the river - too many variables.

Take along a black rooster tail. Fish deep! Suggest pink and white power eggs for spincasters with enough weight to bounce along the bottom. Your plan is a 28 mile float over a weekend. You may want to consider cutting back and taking out at Riverton - 21 miles. You'll find that you are passing up lots of good fishing spots. The Riverton to Hwy 142 section is mostly smallmouth water, and while you may catch a few, the action in the trout water is much better. I suggest taking the time to check out some of the sights - walk back to Greer Springs, 2nd largest spring in Missouri and awesome sight. Fishing at confluence of spring and river is excellent fishing. Pull over at Turner Mill and view the remnants of the old mill. Same for Boze Mill. The two fastest and best rapids are Tumbling Shoals (about 3 miles past Turner Mills Access) and Halls Bay (just downstream from Boze Mill) border on Class II waters and great spots to pullover. Just passed Halls Bay, the trout fishing slows down considerably. IMO, the best fishing is from Greer to Whitten - the first 12 miles. If you fly thru that section on the first day to make time to go the entire 28 miles, you will be passing up some of the best fishing. Also, consider doing some wade fishing for better results. Granted, the others in your group are not fishing much, but maybe consider setting up camp a little earlier in the day. There is not an abundance of gravel bars on the Eleven Point, and on the weekends, you will find most of the good camping spots along the river get grabbed up by late afternoon. I've seen lots of people still floating late in the evening looking for a camping spot that is open. Don't wait to pick a spot if you find a good one by 5 o'clock or so. As a general rule, MDC stocks prior to holidays. Expect good fishing just prior to July 4th. You should have plenty of stockers to throw on the grill at night. Enjoy and give us a report. You will not be disappointed in the Eleven Point - IMO the most beautiful river in MO. Only drawback - expect some jetboat traffic on weekends.

Gotta love the ditto heads. The GOP is definitely the environmentally friendly party!! LOL

Some on this thread remind me of the golf country club members - they want your green fees but just not play when they are playing.

I guess this discussion is all for nothing since no one really expects regulations to change in spite of each of our opinions. I didn't realize there were canoe rentals with 1,000 canoes. Yes putting all of them on the same stretch of river is a bit much and don't see how anyone would enjoy that except the party crowd. I wonder how much stepped up boat patrols would do to alleviate problems, but really I don't want to see a trooper on the river every hour to make sure I'm behaving. What kind of wilderness experience would that be? So I guess I don't have any answers.

Serious question - Are there that many more canoes on the Ozark rivers now than there were 30 years ago? I actually know very few people who float at least once a year. It was a big deal in my teens and early twenties - 10-15 couples would get together and float and camp together - and for the most part we were behaved. I just don't see it right now that there are way too many people floating our rivers, but then again I stay away from the notorious party rivers. I see jet boats as being more of a problem with causing damage to rivers. But I am far from a expert on the subject. I just don't see the issue of too many canoes the rivers in the summer IF they are picking up the trash after themselves.

OK Smalliebigs - I understand your frustrations after what happen with your property on the Meramac but that seems to be as much about poor business practices (gravel mining and farming practices) than related to recreational use. And I'm not familiar with that river. I guess my biggest concern for mandatory classes required to allow someone to float is the detriment it would cause to families who want to take the kids on a rare outdoor experience. I myself have had the pleasure of taking family members on float trips with kids who have never been on a float trip and adults who haven't floated in 20+ years. If they all would have been required to pay for a class, take up a Saturday, just to have that one time experience, well, very few would have went on the trip. I have no doubt that mandatory classes with a fee would cause fewer people to use the rivers, and the people who only do the rare float trip would no longer float, so I guess the objective of making the rivers less crowded would happen. Seriously, so many people go on float trips with the family because it is a cheap vacation. Would dad pay perhaps $50 for him, mom , and the 3 kids to take a class before going? I think we would be denying many families that one in a blue moon experience. Yes, they all could have taken the classes, but not likely to go to that trouble for a one time trip. I have taken so many people on float trips who had a blast, but have never been back on a river since then. They did no damage to the river. The kids had an experience they will never forget, and may become users of the rivers when they get older and have their own children. I think there would be a great number of people who would never take that rare one time float trip if they had to attend a class first. While we would not be denying them that opportunity, it sure would be a detriment. Responsible people who feel an obligation to take care of our resources will continue to do so and irresponsible people will continue to be irresponsible. Requiring certification to flaot will not change that. Personally, since law enforcement made it a priority to crack down on unruly behavior on some rivers, I have seen a drop in the number of drunken floatillas on the rivers.

Man somebody has their panties in a bunch. The Ozark National Scenic Riverways are as much mine as they are anybody's. So it is my RIGHT to enjoy them anytime I want to. I agree - from what I've seen, "locals" do as much damage to rivers as anyone. Most of us do behold the axiom "No trace left behind". I don't need a weekend class to teach me that nor do kids. Adults are the examples for young kids. Sorry you don't have your own private stretch of river. Go out west to Colorado or Wyoming and buy your own land with a stream if that is what you want and you can keep everybody else off of it. I hope Missouri never goes down that path. Most of us know which rivers to stay away from on weekends, which weekends are usually crowded, and I can say in all my years of floating, I have only NOT enjoyed myself because of crowds maybe two or three times, and that was on holiday weekends. What you are suggesting is more government interference, more regulations, more restrictions, and pretty soon what you end up with is the priviledged few with money or connections that have preferential use of the streams. I cannot believe anyone on here that loves the outdoors, streams, fishing, and tremendous recreational opportunities that we are accustomed to with our Ozark Streams would be in favor of restricting, regulating, and governmental interference in nature. Shame on you.

Also not in favor of any kind of special classes and/or permits to use the rivers. For all the same reasons, plus the people who want to make a once a few years trip on the river will not go to trouble of special classes and will just skip the float trip, denying perhaps their kids out of the enjoyment of float trips. The biggest problem I see is trash in some rivers and their access areas. I don't think special classes are going to change the mindset of those yahoos.

All good advice. Yes I keep some rope tied on to front of canoe. Not to proud to walk around something to ensure keeping stuff dry on overnighters. Nothing worse than a wet sleeping bag. All sounds good and looks like river is getting a little bump today. If we can get an occasional afternoon shower in the next few weeks, I'm thinking the river will be fine. Now I'm really psyched. Next week the Eleven Point all week, and Jacks Fork the following week. Does it get any better??