Bill Butts

Hybrids and Whites eat the same Shad, but when the Hybrids get large they can eat larger ones when they're in the mood. Overall, i probably use an average size of 2.5 to 3.5" in baitfish patterns most often, like Clouser Minnows. I carry and successfully use the same patterns sparsely tied as small as 1-1.5", and as large as 5". Then, there are the Striper mega sizes, but that is a different discussion. You can sometimes find Hybrids and Whites in shallow flats if they're in a pattern of pushing bait to them or finding bait in them. When they are in that skinnier water, it is usually a windswept flat. Calm water is rarely your friend. Always remember, with all Temperate Basses, that the fish will not be far from Shad, and they will establsih daily feeding patterns that will repeat for days or weeks, but you never know when it will change. In the spring, the spawning runs of Whites and Hybrids overlaps with the Hybrids coming later. I look for current water that is at least 3-4' deep that has a similar or deeper calm pocket off the edge of the current. Whites love to hang just out of the current, whereas Hybrids will commonly hang in deep current preferably 5-6' or deeper. It's amazing how a Hybrid will come up to a fly or lure, and even more amazing how hard they fight once hooked. Pound for pound the hardest fighting freshwater fish. This is a lot of rambling so I hope it is helpful to you, and others. There are many individual topics within my brief overview above that deserve much greater detail for better understanding. Good fishin'!

Sorry I don't remember your name on this board. Please reply or drop me a PM thru the board. Thanks!

If you reside in Rockaway, it isn't very close to any of those, is it? I really like Norfork, because you have the opportunity for all 3 Temp Bass and I have caught all 3 in a single day but not often. Do you have a boat? If so, river or lake type boat? Are you planning to use gear or fly tackle, or both? Grand is a little like Truman, lots of Whites and a good Hybrid fishery. No Stripers. Both lakes can come alive with shad chasing, surfacing Hybrids, Whites and others, at times. Truman undoubtedly has the best overall fishing for Hybrids and big ones in the region. Factor in learning to fish the tailwater when it is productive and you have great opportunity up there.

What would you like to know about the Hybrids? Your closest Hybrid fishing is either Norfork, Truman, Beaver or Grand Lakes. Surface feeding Hybrids in the fall on Greers Ferry is epic. They aren't difficult to catch, but finding them is the most challenging factor. Let me know how I can help.

Wow, what a flow on this river, It is one of my favorites in the spring, but it will be trashed for a while now. Yesterday at this time, the flow was 623 cfs, just about the average winter flow. While the monsoon rain event is not over yet, the gauge at Quapaw is reading 27,000+ and rising. That is about 13 vertical feet of water increase in 24 hours. The positive is that it may be full of Paddlefish now, and of course even more White Bass will infiltrate the river probably all the way up to Baxter Springs.

It's always interesting (and frustrating) when the bite just shuts off. The first and most logical possibility would be a change in water temp after the cool night and some cool rain. You could probably pin it down to that if you knew the water temp each day over the past few days, and then took it today. A few degrees can shut down upstream movement, feeding and spawning activity for a short time. Since White Bass will continue to actively feed until the hour they begin their mating dance, a little cooler water temp also lowers their metabolism and they don't feed as actively and aggressively until the temp climbs back up. They don't usually retreat very far, just somewhere that is a little deeper, and perhaps warmer, where they don't have to expend much energy until the temp comes back up. If you keep a fishing journal and love to fish for White Bass in the spring, you will find it beneficial to acquire a digital thermometer and faithfully take the temp multiple times each trip and record your readings, and ask your buddies to do the same and share the info. Just my 2 cents. Hope it's helpful.

There is a chance I will be coming down to fish the lake, or the river, on Sunday. Original plan was to hit the Spring River, but will see how the reports look in the next few days.

Great report, your consistency is amazing!

Good luck bro, bring on the Stripers!!!! Hope you have your fly rod!

This is great supportive information, just as you state. Thanks for sharing. I've read about the postive affects for years, which is a win win for fishermen who prefer either or both species. About 3 years ago in a discussion with one of Arkansas' fisheries biologists, I was asked to take any opportunity to reinforce these facts with fellow fishermen, and to provide positive feedback to the AGFC at any opportunity. Apparently, they must get a lot of negative feedback based on ignorance of the facts. Interestingly, several years back, I learned about some die hard bass tourney guys from southern MO who fished a tournament on Beaver about this time of year. In their efforts to catch LMB in the tourney, they kept hooking Stripers on their suspended stick baits. Based on that one trip, they gave up on LMB and tournaments and began pursuing Stripers from that point forward.

Fanatic, If you've experienced success with White Bass on the Table Rock fishery, you may have enjoyed some of the largest average size Whites in the entire Midwest. There isn't a better fishery for large average size White Bass anywhere I know of, even though there are many good fisheries. The Grand Lake fishery is a very large body of water, and very rich with many gamefish including White Bass and Hybrid Stripers, which are productive to fish for at a variety of tiimes during the year. For many years, I heard stories about massive Spring spawning runs of Whites in the Spring and Neosho Rivers, but never took the opportunity to try my luck. There are many good streams with good spawning runs closer to my home of Springfield. Several years ago, I finally started making several trips to the Spring River each Spring and to this day I wish I'd been making those trips for all the decades I've fished for Whites in MO and AR. The Grand Lake fishery, including its primary tributaries in the Spring, contains what I believe to be the most impressive population of White Bass in or near the Ozark Region. The Spring spawning run on the Spring River can start very early in the year, sometimes as early as late February if the winter weather has been mild and river water levels are near normal. My personal fishing journal shows my earliest success on the river was Feb 22 a few years ago. The orgin of this river is in MO, where Shoal Creek also joins this spring-fed river. It is the second largest tributary of Grand. White Bass will stage (congregate)in or near the mouth of the river in late winter, where anglers use boats usually launched at Twin Bridges to access the river channel of both the Spring and Neosho Rivers. The Neosho River, which flows out Eastern KS (John Redmon Res.) is the largest tributary of Grand Lake and in a normal water year the spawning Whites cannot ascend the river above the small dam at Miami. Similarly, this river also has a massive run of spawning fish though it is rarely clear enough to actually see the fish in the water. The greatest limiting factor to a successful spring run trip is water level and clarity. The water levels are continually updated on the Tulsa Water District website. My experience has been that ideal water conditions only occur every 3-4 years, but when it is right is fabulous with 50-100 fish days not uncommon. The Spring River is also a wonderful river to wade, with beautiful gravel bars and shoals, especially if you access it by boat to reach some of the ideal water upriver. Spawning runs seem to last longer on these rivers, too, lasting sometimes until around the first of May. An added potential bonus is the opportunity to tangle with some of the lake's Hybrid Stripers which overlap their run with the latter part of the run of Whites. 690,000 Hybrids were stocked in 2005, and lesser numbers since then, so there are some very large Hybrids swimming that fishery. There are other minor tributaries that also receive runs of Whites and Hybrids, but they are much smaller flows and more sensitive to local fishing pressures which kind of makes them a little different challenge to fish due to overall size and access issues. Some are excellent in the right conditions. As for the rest of the year on that fishery, summer and fall fishing on this lake can be fabulous with topwater or near surface baits on mornings or evenings when schools of Whites herd schools of shad into shallow water or up to the surface over deeper water during calm to light wind conditions. These predators can also be found chasing bait on windy points and flats chasing their favorite forage. This lake fishing lasts until the water temps get too cool for the shad which then seek deeper and warmer water, usually late in the fall. You will never find White Bass or Hybrid Stripers very far from a school of shad. I hope you find this helpful in your efforts to fish the Grand Lake fishery. Good fishin! Bill

Has anyone heard or have a clue why they're doing what they're doing with the water releases recently? Looking at the past week's hourly levels on the Tulsa Water District site, the extreme changes in a 24 hour period are pretty odd on some days. Tenkiller is only one foot above power level, so there doesn't seem to be any obvious reason to dump water at the rates they have been. It is not very cold so it wouldn't appear to be power demand either. Is there anything related to low oxyden (DO)that is still a concern? Thought that ended when the lake turned over a while back. Also curious if any Stripers are being seen or caught in the trout water of the upper section between the dam and MarVal. Good fishin to you guys!

Hey DaddyO and all, Good and obvious curiosity about the water clarity, since it is normally quite clear. It was 3 years ago, if I recall correctly, that a similar scenario occured on your tailwater. Extended weeks of very high inflow from the Upper IL deposited massive amounts of sediment into the lower lake. Once the sediment settled into the depths of the lower lake, it(the lake) appeared normally clear, but the sediments made a continuing dirty clarity impact in the river below as releases gradually drew the accumulated sediment from the bottom of the lake. I very clearly recall driving across the dam and seeing beautifully clear lake water, but then being quite disappointed to find the river water very brown murky. This condition did last for some weeks, but I don't recall for how long. So, even after the lake looks clear, it will take quite a while for the river to carry the accumulated sediment out of the lake. The other issue that is created by this unusually massive high water event is that of water temperature in the tailwater below the dam. As a result of the Corps of Engineers (COE) having to blow incredible volumes of water thru the combination of turbines and flood gatess, lake water is being drained from both the top (flood gates) and nearer the bottom (turbines)of the lake. So, what does that mean? The water drained off the top of the lake is generally the new inflow and somewhat warm in temperature, whereas the water drained thru the turbines is the usual important cool (trout friendly) water from greater depth, until that cool deep water is diminished or depleted and only warmer water remains. Odd but true. Going back a few years again, many fishermen will recall that the water temps were so warm 24/7, that the ODWC postponed trout stocking for literally months until sometime in November after water temps consistently stayed cool enough to support trout. In normal years, the challenge for keeping trout alive in the tailwater is keeping enough water volume flowing to keep the water temp cool enough for them. I've watched daily flow levels and water temps on the web for days and weeks consecutively, and the clear pattern is very low flow during the a.m. to early to mid p.m., then after the water temp rises 8-12 degrees the COE releases enough water to bring the temp down to a survivable level for the trout. It is a daily cycle. So much of the upper few miles of the tailwater is very shallow, and warms very quickly with intense summer sun on the slow shallow water. Hopefully, this is fairly clear to anyone who is interested. This year is a very unusual year with the extended high water, but it is not the only type of critical water event that happens in a tailwater trout stream. Fortunately, this unusually high water year is very rare but interesting it is now twice in the past 3 years. Conditions will get better, but only time will tell how soon. Great fishing to everyone! Bill

Hey Zach, Great idea to engage your fellow LIR fishers. Attached is a photo of a nice Striped Trout that was caught and released in the lower stretch of the Watts Access on a 100 degree summer day. Can't recall the specific pattern, but probably not a size 22 Emerger. You have a great home water fishery in your backyard! Keep up your great local LIR enthusiasm! Bill

Hey Zach, Your question is a good and obvious one, especailly when many area fishermen are looking for opportunites to get on the river to enjoy the awesome fall weather we are having. Everything I have read in this topic is logical with respect to questioning the water levels, and the Corps' stance with respect to power demand vs available water to produce that power. However, what I've not seen in this thread is any mention or discussion regarding what every White River tailwater fishery faces every fall with respect to very low dissolved oxygen content in the water that is flowing thru the dams that create these trout fishery opportunities. If you recall either 2 or 3 years ago on the Lower IL River (LIR), the dissolved oxygen (what allows fish to breath and function normally)rates were so low that few fishermen were even on the river because the trout had either died or were hunkered down in the few deep holes in the river with very little bodily function. During that period, from sometime in the summer to sometime in November, the ODWC terminated all trout stocking efforts. This was due to the extremely poor water quality (again, low oxygen) in the river. About 1-2 weeks prior to the ODWC re-starting trout stocking, I spent a full day floating/fishing from the dam to MarVal with zero success on Stripers (our intended target), few baitfish of any type, no visible trout despite clear water and visibility, and not one other fisherman met until we were almost to the MarVal takeout. If someone would inquire with the ODWC, and ask what the DO (dissolved oxygen)rates have been in recent weeks, I would be very surprised if the DO rates have not been an issue. When it comes to reality of a fishery, I believe that it is pretty obvious that fishery would be better off if they established a slightly stronger minimum water flow (cfs) to keep more consistent temperature flows that could also produce improved DO rates. If you look at the summer flows on the LIR, the pm flows of limited water were certainly to cool the water temp down to tolerable and more ideal water temps for trout survival, commonly a 10-12 degree temp swing during the heat of the summer, but then cooled back down during the generation period. One thing that you will most surely find, if the ODWC has continued to stock trout during the past several weeks, is that those fish will not only survive but very possiblly thrive from the increased water flows and abundance of food washing their way. This is very consistently true in all of the White River tailwaters. Over a period of weeks, the fish will develop a more robust and firm physique from the constant availability of food. I hope this helpful in developing a more broad perspective of the dynamics of tailwater fisheries, good and not so good. Please report any further findings and information you learn for everyone's benefit and understanding of this fishery. Good fishing to everyone! Bill Butts

Cole, Thanks very much for posting this important matter. I hope those who fish that area will forward this and take action as a collective voice. That reporting site has been a vital resource in my fishing trips to that river for Stripers for the past several years. Here is an email of what I shared with a number of friends who understand the importance of this reporting site to wading and boating fishermen on the Lower IL River: Greetings Folks! Thanks to the individual who posted this important concern on Ozark Anglers, we have the opportunity to comment on this issue before a final decision is made. I hope that every one of you who have experienced this wonderful fishery can fully realize what a loss of resource this would be for many. Who or what tackle shop in that area would you contact to get the water flow info now provided by the USGS site? The answer is of course, none, unless you develop a personal contact there. I've been fishing down there for several years and still do not have what I consider a reliable and consistent contact for water conditions and fishing reports. Another issue is that few sportsmen will take the time to comment on this, but if enough of us do then it would have to get their attention and consideration. The site designation is: USGS 07198000 Illinois River near Gore, OK Please take the time to access the OK Water Resources Board (OWRB)and the USGS to make your voice heard in this matter, here are the links: http://www.owrb.ok.gov/about/contact/contactus.php (go to the "contact the OWRB” link toward the bottom of the page) http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?site_no=07198000 (USGS web page for this reporting site---open link and click on “contact USGS” in upper right corner) Please drop me a quick note after your take the time to make your comments known to the USGS and the OWRB. Please forward to anyone you believe would have a genuine concern, particularly fishermen and fly club members in eastern OK. Thanks in advance to all who invest the time to do this. For the good and safety of many, Bill Butts

Fat Sucker, Your hunch is correct, Thomas Hill is a very good fishery for Hybrids. I have not fished it, but researched it extensively a while back in anticipaton of a trip. The best info about the fishery I found was from two MDC agents that work that area. Sorry I don't have their names at my fingertips, but what I found was that the reservoir lays in two different counties. Due to that fact, there were two MDC (MO Dept of Conservation)agents in each of the counties that spend time on that fishery. I talked with two of them in detail, one of which was a very nice woman who was very helpful and said she'd seen fly fishermen paddle a canoe across the discharge channel in to order to then hike up channel a ways to wade and successfully catch some the Hybrids you inquired about. Sounds good huh? I have fished other discharge waters like TH, and what you need to prepare yourself to fish is from near the surface to about 3-4' deep. If you're going to fly fish, a floating or intermediate line for near surface presentations and a type 3 sink tip line for 3-4' depth presentations is what you will need. Basic patterns that imitate 2-4" shad is about all you need. That should include the realistic coloration of gray and white, but also a chartreuse/white version for times of dark sky and/or off-color water for greater visibility. You should be able to contact the MDC office in Moberly (if I recall correct) for the names and #s of the agents. Good luck, and please report your experiences. Hope this is helpful. Bill

Greetings cAc, Your friend was right about building your own shooting heads, the old way constructing loops. They are very functional despite that most folks don't like the loop at the 30-35' mark since it has a strong propensity to hang in the tip top. You can also buy shooting heads pre-looped. My suggestion for your stated types of fishing is something similar. If you want to do it all with one reel, you will need a changeable tip line but I would suggest something a little different. I've spent many days on the AR River where you describe and I really like to use a Rio VersiTip line which has 5 interchangeable 15'tips in the 8 wt size. I really believe a floater or intermediate and a type 3 sink tip (both 15')is all you need to fish that river, unless you plan to fish the deep holes around the sand dredging operations. 15' is a very castable and manageable length for looped tips because the factor of hanging up in the tip top is less likely or frequent. The VersiTip comes with a floater, intermediate, type 3, type 6, and type 8 sink tips. This is also a great line for your bass fishing from topwater to quite deep. That line is expensive, about $130, but remember you don't have to buy multiple spools, gobs of backing, or multiple full lines, all of which would be much more expensive. Make sense? Hope this is helpful. Bill

Hello Bobber, Could you tell me more about "praire creek and coose" you spoke about? I couldn't get anything to come up with a Google search. The run upriver from Twin Bridges would be very challenging even in a jet boat unless the flow was considerably high from rain, don't you think? Thanks for your follow-up. Bill

I agree with OKFF44, this needs to be clarified. There was a similar post back at either July 4th or Memorial Weedend. It is understandable that MarVal could have some parking and crowd issues during a busy weekend, but if the agreement with the ODWC is to allow free public access in exchange for the trout stocking then the ODWC needs to remind MarVal management of this and to be fully compliant. I suppose there is a chance that their agreement could provide exceptions on major holiday weekends. Remember, too, that MarVal sold their resort to a larger national company a few years ago, so the "agreement" was most likely with the original owners prior to the change in ownership. The fisheries biologist from ODWC for the Lower Illinois fishery is Gary Peterson, and he is a very nice man. If someone would contact him at 918.683.1031 and then post their findings, it would benefit everyone on the board who accesses the river. Some may not even know about the access. Whomever talks with Gary should also ask him to notify MarVal of the issue directly, so this is resolved with the proper communication. The ODWC are great folks, in my experience. I would call Gary and get this clarified, but I am leaving early Tuesday for 7 days and will have very limited access to a computer. If there are any questions, you can email me ( bill.butts@sbcglobal.net ) or post a reply or a PM any time thru Monday night and I will follow-up asap. You can also call me any time at 417-840-3040. Thanks in advance for your time and effort to help everyone better understand what the agreement really is. Good luck in getting clarification. Bill

Phil, My thought exactly. Here is their dept contact for that area: AGFC Regional Offices: Northwest Regional Office 455 Dam Site Road Eureka Springs , AR 72631 479-253-2506 1-866-253-2506 - Toll Free Fisheries Biologist: Ron Moore --- Beaver Lake 877-631-6005, rmoore@agfc.state.ar.us Bill

Quillback~ Thanks for your post, I would really like to read the full article to see what comments there are about the Temperate Basses -- Striped, Hybrid Striped and White Bass. However, since I am not a subscriber all I can read is the intro to the article. How about a little help by copying and pasting the article to another post so more of us can be educated? Thanks in advance for your help. Bill

Hello Zim~ Here is a link for Little Dixie. Owned by the MDC. http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/applications/moatla...?txtAreaID=5904 It does not mention Stripers or Hybrids on the profile, but if you are serious about learning more about it, contact the MDC Agent for that county (Callaway) and ask for the contact info of the fisheries biologist for that lake. Both of those MDC staff will be very helpful to your learning curve. Please report your findings. Bill

Hello Esox~ A fall "run" of Striped, Hybrid Striped or White Bass is very ambiguous term. Yes, they are all spring spawners whether it is successful spawning with Whites (highly prolific), or just going thru the motions as with Stripers (on a few fisheries in the US have successfully reproducing populations) and Hybrids. Personally, when I've heard people talk about a "fall run" it is a confusing term referring to the surface feeding in the fall on lakes. I've never known great numbers of any of these fish to "run" up a river in the fall, unless it is part of their usual feeding activity. Examples of this I am aware of in this region exist mostly in some of the tributaries of the AR River in OK but that is not a fall-only pattern. They go where the bait (mostly shad) goes. Hope this is helpful. Bill

Chris~ The response you got from the ODWC biologist may be an answer they give to a lot of folks if they are unsure of your attitude toward the Hybrids. I know those folks and I really believe if you make it known you are "pro-Hybrids" they would be a lot more open. The two main biologists who man that spoonbill station are Brent Gordon and Ashley Foster. Brent is one of the ODWC spoonbill gurus, but his main fishery responsibilities are the AR River, Keystone Lake, Oologah Lake, plus some small ones. He also captures the Stripers their hatchery folks spawn to make more Stripers and all the Hybrids, each April from the AR River (they are returned after short term post-spawn observation). By the way, the AR River is NOT stocked with Stripers, they are all wild fish, and gorgeous they are. The hatchery produced Stripers are stocked elsewhere in the state. Ashley has Grand Lake but I'm not sure what others. She has just been on that fishery for about a year. My opinion is that they have extremely good folks doing wonderful work for fishermen in OK. The ODWC has also been conducting comparative studies of original strain vs reciprocal Hybrid Stripers in Kaw Lake. Studying primarily two issues: which strain grows the fastest and which has a greater tendency to go down river thru the dams during extended periods of strong outflow like we've had the past two springs (high or flooded tributaries inflowing lots of water, the dams outflowing lots of water thru generators and/or flood gates, therefore significant current thru the lake). One of their research guys told me this spring that they are finding a near equal tendency with each strain for migrating down current, and that the original strain is definitely the faster growing of the two. I believe he said there is one more year in their 5 year study, but he was pretty sure they would not be creating many of the reciprocal Hybrids after the study was completed. The question that keeps circulating in my mind is I wonder what % of the 690,000 Hybrids they stocked 4 years ago are still swimming in Grand Lake, and how many migrated down to Hudson, of those that have survived. I have intended but not taken the time to call the game wardens for the counties covered by Grand and see what comments about Hybrids they have heard in the past couple of years. Hope you can get out there again, today. You must live pretty close. ??? Good luck, Bill