gonefishin

I don't know how much they have actually purchased but I do know, at least according to their own magazine, there has been a lot donated to them. Finally let me say again. I do not begrudge the MDC the tax I just think they have taken it too far and have became very greedy. I don't see how they can justify license fee increases and limit reductions when the public had just given them a big raise. Why did they feel they had to slap the public in the face for giving them a big influx of cash, was it an insult to them or something? Just seems strange to me but that is JMO.

Well put vonreed.

I am sure they are. My eyes aren't very good. I know because I have seen people who can tell exactly how long a fish is and what it weights from 50 yards and more. Makes me envious.

There are about 3 million workers in MO. Average income is $32705 If only half $16325 (it is more than half) is spent on taxable items then each person pays $20.40 (not counting licenses, fines or other fees)to the state of MO each year. According to my calculator that comes to an income of a tad more than 61 million dollars from the 1/8th cent sales tax alone. That is a nice little chunk of change.

Like I said I don't have any use for poachers but, I also know that people can be vindicative and aren't above calling the law on someone just because they don't like the fact that they are in their spot or they are catching fish and I am not or whatever the reason. This is a total waste of game law enforcement time and money and there are no stops in place to counter potential abuse. Getting checked once in a while when fishing is no big deal and I am always happy to comply. If a person were to get checked 4 or 5 or 6 times a day it would get to be a real problem. Most I have been checked in a day is 3 times. After the second time it was getting annoying. OHHH, I almost forgot. I am a crawler fisherman and I eat fish. Is there a local chapter of Crawler and/or Bluegill anonymous around here somewhere? I need to kick the habit.

Wouldn't bother me to work a release boat but, I don't have to. I can go out on any lake a day or two after a tournament, boat around for a while, and see the floaters. I am not kicking tournament fishermen. I just don't care for the attitude some have. They close their eyes to the fact that they kill some fish but then complain because someone keeps a fish now and then to eat. Seems kind of sanctimonious to me.

The problem is a lot of people haven't figured out the difference between a percentage and total dollars. They (MDC) doesn't get 1/8th percent of total tax dollars they get 1/8th cent of EVERY dollar spent on taxable items in MO. There is a BIG difference. Lets use a new car for example and for easy calc lets say the car cost 25,000 and the total sales tax is 5%. That would make the total sales tax on the new car $1250. If the MDC got 1/8% of the total they would get $1.56 on a car sale but that is not what happens. They get 1/8cent on every one of the $25000 which is $31.25 I know that doesn't seem like a lot of money on one car sale but how many cars are sold in MO every year? And remember they get 1/8 cent of every dollar every time that car is re-sold. Then add in the tax from every dollar spent in the grocery store, Walmart, the gas stations, furniture stores, clothing, medicine, restaurants, parts stores, boats, rv's and so on and on and on. I don't know what the total number of taxable dollars spent in MO annually is but 1/8% of each of these dollars is HUGE.

Heh heh. Well it may be a bit over the top but I was just trying to back up my statement. Chinese products are NOT safe. Nor are most third world products. Think about it this way, after reading that post and realizing how much lead is in Chinese aluminum, do you really want to use a made in china skillet to fry your fish in? Then there are the other untested for metals such as beryllium and cadmium and this does not even cover radiation contamination. But hey, the good news is their products are cheaper!!!!!!!! Somewhere along the line the American public has been sold on the idea that less expensive is better. The thing is with China, South Africa, Indonesia and other countries such as that not only are they less expensive they are cheaper and possibly poisonous too. YEAH!!! Bring on the cheaper

No doubt about that CC. They probably had the plans to steal the money made way before the SS act even became law. Speaking of SS (off subject I know but it does show how these things work) Subject: Social Security- Interesting facts FYI ? just in case some of you aren't aware of this! Its easy to check out, if you don't believe it. History of Social Security. >>>_____________________________________________ Franklin Roosevelt, a democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program He promised: 1.) That participation in the Program would be completely voluntary, 2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the Program, 3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year, 4.) That the money the participants put into the independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and, 5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income. >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to "put away" -- you may be interested in the following: >>>------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the General fund so that Congress could spend it? A: Lyndon Johnson and the democratic controlled House and Senate. >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding? A: The Democratic Party. >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Which Party started taxing Social Security annuities? A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the "tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the US. >>>------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants? A: Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party.

No kidding JD. I have argued this for years but it has fallen on deaf ears. I cant speak about other industries but, I was in the metal that have similar issues whom we regularly buy from. It makes me sick; funny thing is it is making everyone including our pets sick now. (heh, no pun intended) Go to the LME site and look at the difference in US and (the rest of the world) specs. Here is an example of a common spec used for everything from fly reels to cooking utensils to car parts. First thing a person might notice is the number of elements tested for. The second thing they might notice is the lack of a Lead spec for overseas material. The third thing a person should see is the total for elements other than Aluminum in North American Spec is .5 Max of which each element cannot be over .1 but in overseas material there is no total for other items and each item can be up to .5 In other words the total for other metals cannot be more than 1/2% Max here but overseas it can be up to 2.5% North American Spec Element % Minimum Maximum Copper 3.00 3.50 Silicon 8.50 9.50 Iron 0.80 1.00 Magnesium - 0.10 Zinc - 3.00 Manganese - 0.45 Nickel - 0.50 Tin 0.10 Lead - 0.10 Chrome (chromium) - 0.10 Titanium - 0.10 Others – each - 0.10 Others – total - 0.50 Overseas spec for the same product Element, % (min/max) Cu 3.0 – 4.0 Si 7.5 – 9.5 Mg - 0.10 Zn - 2.90 Fe - 1.00 Mn - 0.50 Ni - 0.50 Sn - 0.35 Others - 0.50

Mo has a lot going for it in hunting, fishing, nature trails ect. My big gripe is and will remain, what happens to the money? I see them coming up with more and more creative was to get into the pockets of people who use these resources with only very little to show for the bucks. With the kind of money they are earning fishing limits should be increasing not decreasing and license fees for residents should be steady or decreasing not increasing. It is just more and more bucks that disappear and where do they go? And all those bucks in the banks earning interest, don't think for a minute the state or federal governments aren't working hard to figure out a way to grab them up, with the lack of disclosure they may already be lapping them up for all we know.

jdmidwest: I did not take what you said as a personal attack, no more than what I said was meant as a personal attack. Just discussing a difficult subject.

Like I said I don't really care about the trout limit other than the fact it was used to dupe the public. As to other states, I lived in KY. They have good trout fishing areas, limit is 5, they don't have near the facilities MO does and license fees aren't as high and they don't have a special sales tax. Did I mention they have Elk. Ohhh, yea and so does Arkansas. I don't see any of those in MO. Arkansas has a limit of 5 trout and have 4 species. Looks to me like other states do OK. As far as conservation areas go I don't know of any more than there were say 10 years ago. You are right I don't duck hunt at least not in the last few years. I never cared for Big Mac's so I don't eat them either. I don't begrudge the MDC the 1/8th cent sales tax. They are really well funded by the public so they don't have to act like they are broke. The upgrades they are doing at Shepard of the hills doesn't amount to more than a very small percentage of one years income from the 1/8th sales tax alone not to mention other income they have. I don't farm anymore but I did for most of my life. I never needed MDC to come in and help me manage my land. I realized 30 years ago that when people started shoving out hedge rows and overgrown fence lines that they were destroying wildlife habitat. Took MDC 30 years to figure it out. Why would I want them to manage my land? You say I have never walked through a MDC natural area, well you would be wrong. I have done that several times. I was walking through natural areas before MDC put in those fancy all natural asphalt trails. I don't think you know me as well as you thought you did. Again, I don't begrudge MDC the sales tax but it is like cocaine to them. They have had a taste and now they cant get by without the fix. Eventually they will over manage everything trying to keep getting more and more drugs (money).

I think with the 1/8 sales tax (I thought it was a good idea at the time) we have made a monster out of MDC. I think the politicians see MDC as a cash cow and they are using it to milk the public HARD. They cant and never will sell me on the reduction in trout limit. The cant and never will because hatchery upgrades were already planned so "X" was not going to keep the pressure on it forever. Plain and simple truth is they seen a chance to increase profits on trout by another 20% and they did it. They just don't like it when someone calls it like it is.

Looks like ya'll did alright. Truman tailrace can be one the best places to fish at times but when it isn't it can be a lesson in futility. Keeps it interesting.

Right. Not everyone on SS is 65 some were hurt in wars and some were in accidents and some were just born with serious problems. True single mothers don't have to buy licenses for kids under 16 but what about when they have kids 16 and older? Like I said I agree the cost of a license isn't all that bad for most people but it can't be justified when one looks at the huge sums of money MDC has gotten from the everyday tax payers. I don't think it wrong that MDC has money I just think they need to take a reality check and realize where the money comes from and maybe as they have it so good riding on the backs of the tax payers they could show a little compassion for the less fortunate. And they should quit looking for creative ways to milk more money from the public when it comes time for upgrades or repairs and maintenance. They should spend at least a miserly portion of those big free tax bucks on infrastructure. In short I think they should quit acting like a spoiled child of the ultra rich. Paris Hilton comes to mind. JMO

AMEN!

Congratulations RR. I hope everything goes well for you. Just be careful of people named Beeson that you may meet down that way.

vonreed. I wish that was true.

They say it is for genealogy research and that since the people are deceased no harm can come to them if someone knows their SS number. I think it makes it easier for people to get false ID but then that is JMO which is worth less than nothing.

I am not griping about what we have here in MO and I am not griping about what the MDC has done in the past. What I am griping about is the fact that they (MDC) act like they have no money for normal update and maintenance on the infrastructure. I don't think the licenses are too high but, with all the other income they have coming in they should not need to cut limits and increase license fees at the same time to pay for an upgrade they already had the money to do. The fact that they cut the trout limit to 4 is no big deal to me but, think about what a 20% decrease in production does tho their bottom line. So what do they have? A 20% reduction and when the upgrades are done the ability to produce at least twice as many fish. They do not have any plans to stock more fish that I know of so what are they going to do with all those extra fish, sell them? I have no complaints with what the MDC accomplished in the past but I do think since they got the big increase in the inflow of cash they have became exceedingly greedy and need an attitude adjustment. People who cant afford the licence should be on welfare you said. Well what about all the single mothers out there looking for something they and their children can do? What about the handicapped people living on fixed incomes or what about the people trying to get by on $600 or $800 social security retirement checks? $20 may not be high to you and it may not be high to people working decent jobs but to people on fixed incomes an extra $20 here and there is a big deal. I do think it is strange that with all the money that the MDC has they cant even find it in their hearts to offer a break to handicapped people. Kinda sad IMO

Vonreed is right on the money IMO. Fish cant be stressed like that and not have a high mortality rate. Just because they swim away doesn't mean they don't die a little later.

Whats so funny? Those directions are right on the money. Did I miss something?

The cost is extremely high. People just have not figured it out yet. How much of the 1/8th cent tax are they spending on this? They cut trout limits by 20% and raised license fees buy (how much) to pay for maintenance and updating infrastructure that has been paid for many, many, many times by the public. The costs for this update is in the billions; it is just hidden.