SKMO

I've been doing real good on green pumpkin the last few weeks. Pretty much anything based on green generally works OK for me or is a good place to start on TR. Watermelon candy is another standby color. Also purples/reds like like chompers brown/purple laminate. I actually use a lot of Iovino baits that are pretty pricy but they float so if they get shook off you can scoop them up and re-use them. I like Iovino "Oxblood Cinnamon" and "Rhythem and Blues" laminates. Overall some shade of dark green or red/purple seems to be the ticket most often in my boat. If you can find fish that are cooperative I don't think it makes a lot of difference. There is no secrete formula. All this is just my opinion but I think 90% of the game is finding the right fish and maybe 10% is having the right color. Stated another way if I get on hot fish they can be caught on absolutely anything. If they get picky and hard to catch color does come into play but they are still hard to catch and there is no secret formula. I'll toss down a variety of green, red purple and dark colors hoping for a bite. Good Luck - SKMO

Well I did receive a hard copy of the regulation in the mail today. On a whim I Googled "corps of engineers regulation 1130-2-57" and sure enough it was available on line the whole time, even though the "Regulation Expert" I talked with in Little Rock said it was not. Also he kept saying 100' when in fact it is 50'. Anyway here is the exact regulation for your reading pleasure: http://www.swl.usace.army.mil/parks/docs/SWLR1130-2-57.pdf

This question got my curiosity up today and I called the Branson Corps office for clarification. I asked where I could read the exact wording as to the regulation. I got the major run-around and my call was passed to 4 people before I finally got to someone who said there was only one person in the entire Branson office who could answer my question, and they did not know where she was. OK. So I called the Little Rock office and asked the same question. I actually talked with a fellow pretty quick and he read the regulations to me over the phone. Well, it was pretty strange wording, something to do with “no activity 100’ from the basis of central operations” or something like that. He was actually very nice but unable to answer a couple simple questions I had. I asked him where a common person could find and review the regulation and he said he had no clue but he would fax me a copy. He basically said he would send it to me for my own interpretation. Well I do not have a fax. He was unable to email a copy, or send it in any digital format whatsoever, and there seems to be no internet source where the regulation can be examined. Wow. As we left it, he is USPS mailing me a hard copy of the regulation regarding this issue. I will scan it and put it here for all to see and maybe it will be clear. I found it strange that nobody in the Branson office could answer the question. And Little Rock had the regulation in writing but it has to be hard mailed to me. Seems like a big secret or a joke to them. When I asked the guy in LR who would actually enforce this, he chuckled and said the Corps. I would think it would be hard to enforce any regulation that is not obvious to the casual user. Heck I spent some time on the phone today and still do not know the law. Anyway it sounds like if you are 100’ away from any marina structure you are OK, but I’ll try to post whatever document they mail me for your own interpretation and enjoyment. Stay tuned. Actually just staying away from the marinas would be the best bet. There's a lot of water out there. Seems like there are a few As-hole fishermen and a couple As-hole dock operators who have turned this into a legal issue somewhere, when in fact it is just an as-hole problem.

I am familiar with this part of the Flat Creek and if you will notice the Sheriff said Creek "Bed". There is no water there right now, and probably never is except after a rain event. The birds were found piled up under a small bridge. I went out there and found the spot, and I would describe it as a dry ditch. I would never have guessed it as being "Flat Creek". I had to look real hard to find a few feathers and be sure I was in the right spot, so I would say environmental damage was right at zero. I got a feeling they were pretty small birds as well. Not to make excuses for the offenders because what they did was dead wrong and hopefully they will get their short hairs in the wringer. But don't get the impression they were dumped into an actual stream with fish and such. At this point in the "Creek" it's pretty much a dry ditch or gully. Offenders were obviously idiots, lots better places they could have picked and not had them within sight of a public road. The whole thing would not even be an issue if they tossed them out in the adjacent pasture 100 yards away. They opened a can of worms by dumping them in a "waterway", such as it is. It is a reminder to me to take pictures painted by the media with a grain of salt. I had pictured a small mountain of soggy birds floating in the water. But it looks to me like it was probably a couple trash bags of smallish birds in a ditch. Slow news days lead to this type of reporting.

Techo - If you have a buddy coming in from Iraq who would like to just go fishing I would be honored to show him how to not catch fish. Seriously.

Yep there are a ton of variables but that was the whole point of the question, to try to cut to the quick and identify a couple things you would not be afraid to throw any time of the year and think you had a reasonable chance of getting bit, when the current seasonal hot pattern was not working so well. As example I listed a football jig and actually carry weights from 3/16 to 7/8 and everything in between, in a variety of colors and with different trailers. But if forced to compromise with one "all around" it would be the 5/8 PB&J with a twin tail. It's a compromise, and a bait that has definite hot times during the 12-month season, but I can still get to work year round. Is a football my favorite thing to fish? Not even close, but it's one thing I feel pretty good picking up about any time. I would feel really bad, almost naked, going on the water without a Sammy or topwater tied on and ready to go quick. Because ya never know when you'll find a crazy topwater fish blowing up, even in Jan, and when they do you gotta be ready. But point being I think I can catch at least SOMETHING on a football jig and/or dropshot about any time of the year if I gotta prove to myself there is at least one dumb fish left in the lake. My beloved Sammy and other favorites have their time and place but it's not a bait I can beg and plead one to bite when it gets tough. Just wondered about other peoples favorites that work year round.

Ditto the Mo Water Patrol listing, hands down the best source of info. Any tournament or even small club that has their act together will know to get a regatta permit. It is free and easy and most all the local and informal clubs , even the small 10 boat deals, know to get one. It's a pretty good place to figure out how busy the lake might be with tourney boats as well, as it lists the number of boats the permit was issued for. For example tomorrow 6 tourneys listed for 387 boats total.

Thought there might be more interest in this discussion but I guess not. The whole idea came about as I took a buddy a few days ago who ALWAYS throws a stickbait some part of the day and always seems to scratch some fish, it is his confidence bait. Anyway maybe it was a tough question, or a dumb question. Obviously we like as many rods set up on-deck as we can handle, I just wondered what other peoples go-to or confidence stuff was, and what you thought might work year-round. Not looking for trade secrets, just wanting some impressions as to what other people considered a must-have rig that you would not be afraid to pick up and try any time of the year.

To answer my own post I would offer up these two deck rods I can fish year-round: 1) 6'10" Falcon Medium Spinning rod fast tip, Shimano Stradic reel, 8# Maxima mainline, swivel and then 6# floro below. #4 Gammi circle hook, Zoom watermelon candy finesse trick worm on business end, 1/4 oz pinch on lead as dropshot weight. I like this cause it goes deep and quick and there always seems to be at least some fish at 23 feet or deeper 24/7-365 and I have got comfortable with dropshotting 2) 7' Medium action fast tip rod, Shimano Curado, 12# Maxima, 5/8 oz football jig, PB&J twin tail Trailer. I like this because I can scrub the bottom from shoreline to 30+' if the wind is not too bad. Fantastic 20-30' bait. 1/4 oz would be good too but hard to fish as the water gets deeper and the wind picks up.

I have no idea why I feel the need to open this up, and I think in the past this might have been addressed, but we thought we might have some fun with it. At least open it up for civil discussion, I enjoy hearing other perspectives. ANSWER THIS 2 PART QUESTION: If you were limited to two rods and rigs in the boat on the Rock, and had to fish only those 2 rods/rigs 365 days of the year (1) Describe the rig (2) And why is it your sweetheart go-to rig Be as specific as you care to be. Someone might mention a rig close to your favorite, but put your own spin on it. And your own reasoning on it. Redundancy will happen, and if you are a thinker outside the box, drop us a bomb. Rules: Keep same rod, reel, line, terminal junk 24/7-365...... what would you put on the deck ? I'll put this as an original post and answer it myself as soon as I figure out my own answers.

Well to chime in on the snake issue my opinions are: 99% + of the snakes you see in the water are non-poisonous. The majority on TR are in fact Northern Water Snakes, also called Banded Water Snakes. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Water_Snake I have only seen one copperhead in the water, and that was on a creek, but that said.... any snake can swim if it has a reason to. From a garter snake to a rattler, all can swim, but most choose not to. I have been bitten twice by a copperhead, and had 3 dogs bitten. I would compare it to a bad red wasp sting but not sure I ever got a full dose. I have seen 4 cottonmouths that I could positively identify as such in 21 years of fishing this lake. One was on a dock on the Kings River, and the other 3 were above the Cape Fair Bridge. But I have floated Flat Creek from Stubblefield to EE and on to the lake maybe 8 times, and I think we saw water moc's 6 of those times, so there is a for sure healthy population in the Flat Creek drainage. Infested ? Depends on your definition. Seeing one or two on a float trip reminds me I am sharing the water with other predators and just adds to the experience for me. On the fishing I have not much to add except a couple puzzlements: 1) Topwater bite is kind of lame for me right now. Yeah I can scratch a few fish early but usually this time of year I can count on some nice topwater fish from dead dark-thirty, unto breaking dawn, to the time the sun clears the hills. Sure I had some good topwater a short while back like everyone else, but the post-spawn, predictable "set your watch by them" topwater thing where you are surrounded with pods of fish for 90 minutes just ain't happening for me. 2) I can't pick up on the threadfin. I pretty much video fish from here on out and normally go on point when I see the threadfin balls as I am sure the predators (and my quarry) is close by. I can't find them (threadfin) right now. Winter die off? Maybe. For sure they are still out there, but all Spring I have been catching fish puking up 4-6" gizzard shad, not the norm in my boat. Hint: Keep your boat at 20' or more and keep your back to the bank. Cast toward the Bayliners. The fish are positioned under the powerboats. The shoreline is for sissies.

Even after a successful spawn, most species still retain a large ammt of eggs. It is pretty common that people mistake this as the fish having not spawned. Even a good spawner will have a lot of eggs left. Unexpelled eggs break down and are re-absorbed by the fish over the summer. They turn bloody and orange and into a "mush" that shrinks down over time.

I'll do my best but there is two patterns I can fish: Right now during the spawn (and it is really variable depending on where you are on the lake) try to find a small clear water runoff pocket or head of cove, or a side pocket in a large cove that has some clear pea gravel showing and some fish on beds. The beds you see will be maybe 3' deep, with small fish. The big knot heads will be bedding out deeper in 6-12+ feet just under your boat as you saw the shallow nests. They are not Rocket Surgeons and will come up to play. Clean pea gravel is really important. Forget the beds you can see and go for the deep guys. Back out even more and fish the invisible fish. Once the spawn is over it gets pretty easy. Fish the wide open gravel flats exactly where you would look for dropshot fish, 22-30 feet with any gill type bait. This is easiest and best in my opinion. As far as bait, criks rule but they are a pain in the heinie and I can hold my own with chunks of crawler. Years ago I went toward flooded timber for summer gills, but did nothing other than beat off catfish bait. I Am Positive the biggest knothead Gills roam about on the gravel flats with the Ky's during the summer. Forget all you know about 'gill fishing being related to hard cover, trees, and weeds that do not exist in TR. Ah yeah, the pigs are open water roamers and big enough to hold their own. The biggest and best Gills are gonna be chasing the thread fin out on the flats all summer long and holding their own against the KY's. Just the way it is. All this simply my opinion, based on experience.

Just a suggestion but the easy crappie fishing is over. You could catch some, however if I was wanting to take "youngsters" fishing and keep them occupied and have a fish fry at the end of the day I would grab a couple boxes of crawlers and expect to catch all the bluegill I would want to clean. Plus a few other bonus fish, everything likes to eat crawlers! Just my opinion.

Well there is some really high quality imagery available online from Google Maps, Google Earth, Missouri Map Room (CARES), Topozone and other places. I use them a lot. Missouri Map Room is especially good for folks that want a 1:24,000 USGS topo, basically the best map out there. So my comment would be to not reinvent the wheel but see if one of the sharper tacks (tech-wise)on this forum knows how to put markers / icons on an existing online map and maybe link to that map or redisplay the graphic image. I see this all the time but don't have a clue how to do it. I use ArcGIS most every day at work so I'm not a mapping idjit, just don't know how to get there from here, interweb-wise.

I can think of quite a few other places that are common bank access points, not sure how far you want to go with this. It's actually a great idea, pointing people to where they can bank fish. A great idea. I can tell you a bunch more. Your map is missing Buster Bawls Bluff trail, hands down the best walleye spot on the lake in late Winter / Spring. I can toss you a few other great spots if you are interested. Camper's point, Roaring River, Holiday Island. Lots of bank spots worthy of mention. There are a lot more places to bank fish than you would imagine. Pretty much if you can drive on a public road (county or road district) to the Corps "take line", you are home free. Just pull over and park and you have every right to fish, swim, picnic, sunbathe on the shoreline. You might get some grief by someone telling you you are trespassing but it is ignorance or a bluff on their part. Actually in my neighborhood I don't think you would get a second look if you just pulled in and set up and behaved yourself. The subdivision I live in has the roads maintained by Viola Special Road District (public)and you can drive right to the shoreline owned by the Corps, i.e. you and me. I would not want to get into a pizzen match with anybody and ruin the day, but if you are savvy and can read a map and be polite there is a lot of public shoreline. Just drive in and pretend like you own the place because chances are you do. Oh you will have a lot of differing opinions but it is fairly cut and dried.

Phil - Look at this map, your own site! It is labeled as Kings River Public Use Area. Most locals call it Sweetwater. http://ozarkanglers.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=229&Itemid=47 To drive there turn N on Hwy J at Ball & Prier in Golden. About a mile up J, it will turn L at the post office, instead go straight through the intersection and get on Hwy RA. I think you take RA all the way to area. It is one of the campgrounds the Corps closed in the early 90's. Has a decent ramp and plenty of parking. You can bank fish in the main channel of the Kings, or in Sweetwater cove. There is a little side pocket next to the ramp (shows on your map just W of the ramp symbol)that is really good. Also if you look at your map, just N of Sweetwater cove you will see "Little Sweetwater" cove. You can see that the tip of the cove is cut off by the county road. This is a good place to bankfish (the causeway) especially for catfish, and bluegill and crappie the right time of the year. Also it is a really good place if you are in a canoe, kayak, belly boat, paddleboat etc. The road cuts off the end of the cove essentially making an isolated "pond" of 2-3 acres connected to the lake by a tin whistle. I am not aware of any other place on TR were this exists, but it probably does. Anyway if you have a small craft of sorts and don't want to battle the wakes and wind on the main this might be a little corner of paradise for you, I would imagine you would have it to yourself most of the time. There have been a couple times in the last several years when the lake got high enough to go over the roadbed and I was able to float a full size boat into there. Otherwise I think it is more or less a large public pond that nobody fishes. I would guess there is around 15' of water depth in the middle.

As you go down YY highway headed toward Campbell Point it is on the left. I think it's the first possible left off of YY after you cross into Stone County, and the turn is on the first hard curve to the right. It is well marked, hard to miss. It is actually a US Forest Service Campground (not Corps)with a boat ramp.

Yes, most definitely. But please keep typing, I enjoy the view from a different perspective, The cool concept of a forum is that we get to hear differing viewpoints.

I can think of a few spots on the King's arm: Kings River Access(Sweetwater access) closed corp campground N of Golden. Quite a bit of shoreline to fish, and actually good place to bank crappie fish in season. Foot trail goes a few hundred yards W of the ramp area. Dollar Hole - Just N of Carr Lane. Good for crappie, white bass & walleye seasonally and cats year round. Kind of steep and rocky drive in last couple hundred yards, be careful if it has just rained or you are in a low clearance vehicle. To get there go N of Carr Lane almost a mile, the first time the Hwy starts to turn to the Rt shoot straight ahead (West)and follow that road down to the lake. Walleye can be caught here for sure when the stars line up. 86 Bridge - same species as Dollar Hole. Turn onto dirt trail E of the bridge on S side, fish up and down the bank around the bridge, you can actually go some distance upstream. Sandy soil, be careful about where you park. Buster Bawls Bluff - Between 86 Bridge and Carr Lane there is small fenced enclosure on the S side of 86. I believe it is a corps storage facility. Just E of there are a couple spots you can pull over and find a trail leading down to the river/lake. It's technically lake but looks more like river once you get there, always current. This is the "secret local" Kings River walleye bank spot in Jan/Feb/Mar. Also good white bass. Not for the faint of heart. Look at it in daylight and decide if you want to go up and down the bluff. Not dangerous but steep, and it is night fishing only for the big 'eyes here. You want a TR 9 pounder this is where to do it. Carry in a bucket of creek chubs and you might catch a trophy. But as it's named you'll Buster Bawls before it's over as you have to climb up out of the hole. All these places are decent bank fishing, and are legal public access points as far as I know. Take an extra trash bag and help keep the shoreline clean. Bank fishing spots tend to attract litterbugs and other slobs and anything we can do help keep it clean is a benefit to all of us.

Well I guess any mortality, even 1% can be significant, depending on your definition. As someone stated C&R mortality is still always better than C&F (catch and fry). I think one thing that happened with the dieoff a few years ago is that the LM lost some ground and were replaced by KY's. Just an opinion and it might well be incorrect. I have another theory and that is that through fishing pressure we are all driving genetics toward fish that are hesitant to bite. I don't think any bass has a whole lot of reasoning or thought processes going on, it's all instinct and reaction. I say this because of an observation I have made. I have had the good fortune and experience of being asked to assist the MDC fisheries biologists numerous times during their Spring electrofishing survey on TR. This is done in April when the fish are on the bank, at night. Since the mid 90's I have spent well over 20, and probably closer to 30 nights in the shocking boat, and have cruised many miles of shoreline. Observations: 1) You would be astounded at the number of bass on the bank. There are way more than you would probably imagine. 2)When electrofishing and dipping fish into the boat for measurement there is a very small percentage that have been caught before, as evidenced by obvious fresh and healed hook scars. 3) When personally fishing this same time of year I catch a lot of previously hooked fish. Some days it seems like most every one boated is a double hairlip that has been caught recently or numerous times. The standing joke in my boat is "got another dumb one". So my anecdotal observation or theory becomes this: many fish, perhaps the majority of fish, just don't bite well, or as instinctively as we would like, most of the time. For whatever reason. There are a lot of fish in the lake and when we trailer the boat at the end of the day with our tail between our legs it is human nature to want to identify and point to a reason, any reason, why we were not as successful as we thought we should be. Tournaments, harvest, fish kill, boat traffic, etc and more etc. The last thing we want to admit is the possibility we went toe-to-toe with a cold blooded creature with a brain the size of a pea and came up short. Fact is the fish ARE there and the reason I'll go out tomorrow is because because I know today was not as good as I can do. Next time we'll hammer them. And sometimes it works out.

Booger - A boat is definitely an asset but there are many places to bank fish. Give a hint as to what part of the lake you are wanting to fish in. Catfish and/or bluegill can both be caught from shore in a lot of spots. Give a general area of the lake you like to fish and I bet someone will have an idea.

Well, Arsonal seemed to take it pretty well as per his next post. Admittedly it sounded kind of tough once I re-read it, I was just trying to inject some levity into the discussion. I admire the way he has stated and stuck with his opinions and have sent him a PM to that effect. No more attempts at humor, more seriose discourse in the future, I promise.

THIS RIGHT HERE was worth wading through to get to. Thanks Eric for the best belly laugh I've had in a while. Whoa... not taking sides here but that was a fine one-liner, ya gotta admit. And thanks S&M for that Le Bon quote. I had to go at it a couple times till I got it but it was worth the effort, and worthy of reflection. And Arsenal - I gotta admire you for hanging in there with your convictions, and you made some good points that I appreciate you sharing. I even share some of your sentiments. Plus you drew out a lot of comments from others that I enjoyed reading. Just a hint... Less Jamesons, and more paragraph breaks. Just double tap the "Enter" key a couple of times about every fourth time you lay down a period. And keep hitting that pesky "shift" key every time you start a new sentence so the first word is capitalized (BIG) giving us a hint on transition of thought. Great job on the periods ! All this will help readability. And remember, any i is easy to fix with that shift key as well. It is I most every time.

Darn it I was going to stay out of this completely but there have been some real good points made here as of recent, and I am completely out of popcorn so I might as well type. Greybear and Sam in post 41 and 42 hit upon a topic (tourneys) I wanted to jump in a couple days ago, but decided not to, thankfully, because it is now “their gorilla” Smiley Face you guys! Nothing like dragging a fat hen off the nest and taking her on a 30 mile ride to K-city to ensure success of the nest ! We don’t often talk the Gorilla because... that’s what some folks like to do, tourney fish during the spawn. And we as humans like to compare the conduct of others against our own standards, morals and philosophy. So as concerned as we might be for the fishery we still haul bags of gravid sows to the weigh in if it is in our interest. You can Google gravid if necessary. I do not need a short course on population biology and recruitment, because I do know the basics of that. (Out of the thousands of eggs dropped it only takes 2 of them to hatch and make it to reproductive size for the population to be stable etc etc). Luckily, I believe the lake is pretty resilient. Actually I am positive it is resilient or we would not have the fine fishery we do, seeing the pressure it gets. Then good ol’ DenJac jumps in at post 43 and points out the Most Obvious Fact Of All (Gorilla #2 in Room): The Whole Story is BullSugar. I’m all for a finely-crafted fish story that ages well with time among friends. I have several fish-tales of my own and some have evolved nicely. This one….. not so much. I must call BS, and it needs a total overhaul. My PET PEEVE as far as killing/harvesting bass are the pics in local tabloids, and Resort Websites of dead bass hanging on a wire stringer on the dock of “Such and Such Resort.” What a fertile ground of folks to get on board. An opinion: Don’t overlook the importance of letting a novice bag some fish and follow the process from the end of the rod to the table. There is a real connection happening there. That first experience or two will be what hooks them (no pun intended) and turns them into a fisherman or fisherwoman. That’s what did it for me decades ago and I imagine many others as well. Can you imagine recruiting and training a young person to hunt, and then letting them avoid, actually deny them the opportunity, to get bloody and involved once they got their first dove or duck or squirrel or deer? They have to understand how this goes, and see it through from field to table and decide if it is for them. Same with fishing. A fact: Guides and avid fisherman on the Rock are pretty protective of the bass-fish, myself included and I am but a lowly nimrod fisherman. Give us a break if any of us get possessive or protective of what we would like to promote and preserve for all of us. It's good to be passionate about things we enjoy. We can't always agree on them but I can explain mine and enjoy hearing about yours. Fact is this lake gets hammered, hammered hard, and is still hanging in there nicely. Lot’s of fish caught and some are harvested. (Arsenal - harvested is more politically correct than kill but I am just fine with either term). Lots and lots of fish carted to K-City destroying nests. Lots of fish accidently killed. Lots of illegal and short fish disappear as well. Lots of people do things they do not realize are illegal or not kosher if they had better mentors and instruction early on, which should be our charge and challenge. I am sure my opinions leaked through as I am a C&R guy but don’t get too twisted about someone keeping a couple if that is important to them and will keep them in the game. Just about split my gizzard over the original 50# bag of fish posting however. I just hope KVD does not check in on this board cause you will flat run him off the circuit next year if you decide to belly up to the bar. SKMO