brownieman

Dano, Reading this I have to question the above statement. I know in warmwater species the model being LMB in the first months from fry stage a lmb can reach 10 to 12 inches in the first summer given a good food supply. The first few days after birth a lmb doubles in size daily...a 3 day old fish can eat a 2 day old fish and so on. Come fall and winter with cooling water temps their growth rate slows tremendously till the following spring and then they will take off again but not achieve near the growth rate as the first year. This does not apply to coldwater hatcheries due to the constant water temps year round. Their metabolism does not slow to the degree as warmwater species. Both small bows and browns grow at a much faster rate when they are small. IMO I have to question what they are saying there. Small trout do grow at that rate but but from my experience a 15 inch bow or brown does not grow at near that rate...the larger fishes growth rate slows considerably. When they state "compared to small, brown trout which grow between 6-7 inches per year" IMO that statement should just state small trout, not just brown trout. I don't understand their reasoning on that statement. JMO...hope nobody jumps on me for it. bm

buzz baits, tiny torpedo's, spooks, lucky 13 suspended and floating rapala's, crawdad cranks, gitzits, 1/8 ounce jig head w/purple worm. big minnows, small chubs, live dads if you fish bait good luck bm

Tbum,...this was one of those unusual fish that was going to flop, net or no net, till he had no flop left...I felt thrashing around in a net would have incured more damage, won't bother explaining cause I can see you have it figured out but thanks for the encouraging words. bm

Well said DC, Most kids these days would just as soon catch a fish on a video game of better yet chop some deviant dragon warriors head off. I raised 2 daughters and the environment was about the farthest thing from their minds no matter how hard I tried...now they see being parents themselves. They sure never complained about a little fried deer tenderloin, quail of fresh fish for dinner. I bird hunted for years, mainly quail and about 20 years ago a friend gave me a Brittany from a fantastic bloodline...Lucas, he was my friend and hunting, fishing companion and a darn good one. When I first got him I used to kill about 150 birds a season or so mostly on private land...the last couple of years he was able to hunt we were lucky to bag 20-30 birds a season...many days never raised my gun. I never killed coveys out, took a few and left plenty for seed...it's tough enouph being at the bottom of the food chain. The decline of quail was more than apparant with much more emphasis by the mdc placed on deer and turkey. Farming practices, fescue and loss of habitat has taken it's toll on the small game. Always read about the decline but have seen little effort and little incentive offered to save small game by the mdc. Seeing the same decline of quality fishing especially smallies in our Ozark streams I have to wonder where priorities lie. Tag sales seems to get much more attention due to the money generated. We have become a push button society...convenience above all else. I reckon as long as our kids can see a tadpole or a fish in a nature center or animals in a zoo that's good enouph...it's really too bad but mans tendancy to control or interveen on mother nature...well, it just don't appear to be workin too good. The almighty dollar seems to take presidence above all else...seems to be the way of the world anymore. With wealth comes greed, corruption...I don't care for it. Unless efforts are made we will pay to successfully hunt, fish...just to enjoy the outdoor activities we used to consider fairly cheap. Game ranches, trout parks, fees on everything...we teach our kids to respect nature but by the time their adults there will not be much nature left...something has to give and I see the almighty dollar winning out...whatever, I for one do not like the world we are leaving our children. OK, off the soapbox, sorry for the ramblins, JMHO bm

For myself, I can't speak from Taney, just have fished it a couple of times but the bulk of my largest trout have always come right at daybreak or a bit before...few big ones at night...very few of an evening. I used to just try to be the first one to the water...if it took walking half an hour in the dark I was always fishing undisturbed water. The smaller streams...first guy there will generally get a look at the big one if he is on the feed. bm

I agree, phw...just looked at the link has to not favor these type comments/implications...very poor representation on there behalf. If the implication is he is snagging them in the mouth...put it on the table instead of beating around the bush, yeah, I've seen guys that take em like that. One trout park every year on opening day the same name appears on the lunker board...generally a nice one often a couple...it's pretty common knowledge amoung locals how he takes his fish but it is considered a fair catch...it stinks but there is not a thing anyone can do about it short of jerking his licsense which I would love to see happen. I have fished a trout park one time in my life many years ago...just wasn't my thing. If that's the implication here...explain the night catches phw...appears to me there is some underlying factor here...envy, jeasously, competition...I don't really care just is childish behavior and Leonard seems to take alot of flack. I've caught alot of big browns over the years...that's when I fished alot, like Leonard now does...only guarantee with fishing is if you aint there you aint gonna catch em...the total experience of fishing...well, catching was always just a bonus. If phw is a good organization you DO NOT shed a good light on them. bm

Hope that's right Brian, Just remember, what we think is going on and what is REALLY going on are often indifferent. That's where the public have to be the watchdogs...they have to be held accountable by someone and it's apparant often they don't police themselves very well...especially when talking tax dollars. I feel sometimes so much legislation is being introduced it's a useful tool in sliding things through un-noticed...hopefully, unless caught by someone...better be us cause it's our money and we should be able to attain good feasable reasons of where our monies are spent. State, Federal level don't matter, there is a genuine lack of accountability. JMO bm

Good question Mark...the system is so overwhelmed these days it possibly could get lost in the clutter and there's tons of clutter. Oh yeah...I remember hearing about that...next, out of nowhere it's a done deal. JMO but would not surprise me in the least...all we will know is when it happens, lol...if were lucky. bm

That's a good read JD...IMO someone (with a little yank) finally trying to get to the crux of the bisquit so to speak. IMO this is the trend and has been happening for awhile now but if you rock the boat you're out. Many things have taken presidence that should not even be a consideration...there is good and bad but when it comes to how are tax dollars are being utilized we have little say...IMO personal agendas and motives and the 'Good Ole Boy Network' play far to big a role in most arenas...it's pretty apparant to this old boy. JMHO bm

That is a fat old sow...pictures worth a thousand words...good one. Just makes me itch more, lol. bm

I see no harm in improving or changing anything if it's for the better...would be nice to please everyone just happens very little. Little has changed for my benefit and I don't see it happenin soon, lol. IMO the best I can hope for is just clean water and a fish to catch...more for my grandson than myself. We all have our opinions, can't always speak em in this day and age but we still got em. Hopefully the idea will at least gain enouph attention to plant a seed...at least get the subject brought up and kicked around a little and evaluated. Far as a fisherman...I'll just keep fishin when and where I can and hope for the best...I'll give input where I can and hope for wise decisions but whatever decisions that would be made...well, some will like and some won't...that's pretty much a given to me. jmo bm

Saw someone else say it on here and I agree. They said their grandpa said it and so did mine, 'A big old glob of worms'...if you want to just catch some fish most any species will bite a live worm, big glob of them or a little piece...never met a fish that didn't like a worm. bm

Here's a good example...just a short boring story I guess but... oh well. A couple of weeks ago I was fishing a Trophy Area...got to the water about 5:30 pm and was going to fish till dark. I started fishing upstream being stealthy as possible due to the low water. I caught around 6 or 8 browns 14 to 18 inches I would say and an unusual number of smallies, probably a dozen or so all less than 12 inches...generally don't catch many smallies on the strech I covered. At the last hole I was going to fish before heading back down stream with daylight fading fast I caught a brown about 20 inches, didn't measure it but I have acquired a pretty good eye over the years. He was a real pretty, healthy fat male...was just one of those fish that fight unusually hard...seems like some fight till there almost dead and I use 15 lb. test so I don't over play them. I caught him on a 5 1/4 inch gold rapala and he just went nuts, was in fairly still water and with no current to his advantage was not going to hum my drag with the tackle I use. I always try not to net or touch the fish unless it is one I intend on keeping...just shake the hooks out while he's in the water and part ways and am thankful for the fight. Every time I would get him close enouph to unhook him...rod in one hand, pliers in the other he would just go to thrashing like crazy making it hard to release him. When he finally calmed down enuoph for me to shake the hooks off of him he had about faught himself to death...mind you it's getting darker by the minute and I'm probably a mile and a half from my truck. After I got him unhooked he just layed over on his side in the water so I go into cpr mode for the fish if not he is going to die and have settled by my own fault of taking no light I will have to walk and wade in the pitch black back downstream to my truck...not being as sure footed and perky as I used to be and the river had changed considerably, not a comfortable feeling. Trout are a little different than some fish the slime on their body being a protective coating which if removed invites bacterial infection and fungi. I gently held the fish as lightly as possible by the tail fin and worked him back and forth in the water till I felt him trying to swim under his own power. I let go of him 4 or 5 times and he would sluggishly swim around in a circle so I would repeat the process...by this time is was getting pretty dark but I was determined not to leave that fish dead on my behalf. I spent probably 20 minutes helping the fish gain his strength back feeling responsible for him loosing it. Finally upon letting him go he swam upstream back over to the spot where I hooked him and I had a very slow spooky wade back down the river to my truck. I would say this fish survived to fight another day but I really have no way of knowing. Just did the best I could with the situation and I made it back to my truck without bunging myself up. I feel that if all were to show respect for the way fish are caught and released it would make a difference...all I can speak for is myself...I felt I possibly put the survival of the fish above my own safety. That's just me, the way I've always been and at my age I doubt that will change...it's just kinda respect for other living things and Mother Nature. Sorry for the lengthy post guys and gals...morning ramblings over a cup of java, or 4, lol bm

Studies have been done but imo it involves considerable speculation...by studies gf is not to far off from what I have seen. The stress incurred by catching a fish may not be apparant upon release...some may not die for hours, days or even weeks depending on the damage if any. A hard figure would be a guess at best imo not knowing what happens to the fish after release even though it may appear to swim off fine under it's own power...kinda rule of thumb with me to work him till he's frisky enouph to swim outta my hands pretty good with as little handling as possible. Beyond that I have no way of knowing...can do my best to make sure the fish is ok and thats all any of us can due...the mortality rate is hard to figure considering. jmho bm

Being the case with me...i would not know Leonard if i were talking to him unless he identified himself. I think if most were to self evaluate which i do often...heck...I could hate him for one reason. I am envious as heck he gets to fish so much and is payed to do so, lol...Leonard, as i said before, just hope it don't burn you out on something you enjoy...does happen. Would speculate this being the underlying factor in many instances. Us men tend to have this big thing called an 'ego'...and don't like it stepped on whatever the case may be. I'm just thankful he posts up like he does...he's there so since I'm not he is a very helpful tool for me as I live 4 hrs away. I'm sure he has his reasons for experimenting in the day light concerning seeing things you can't in the dark...makes total sense to me. Ethics... I could give numerous methods I've seen to take big fish that will not bite and it's considered legal...unethical?..heck yeah...legal..heck no...but they have tweaked it and know well what they do. Phil ask of me one time not to expose these type methods as to not plant seeds which could grow in the minds of a beginner or unethical fisherperson...I respect that because he is right...just by talking about it often can be suggestive whether that is the intent or not, so, it's better off unspoken. I don't want to be responsible for teaching someone how to cheat a catch just by me honestly just discussing it on a public forum. It's too bad...all are not ethical and make if tougher for the ones who are. Leonard, I for one appreciate your posts...no matter what you say it's a good overall indicator of how and when the fish are moving straight from the horses mouth so to speak. bm

SK, I'm just curious if the controversial saltys are as hardy as they say they are ? bm

You got it Pat...always a good weekend to stay at home for me. The 'Summer Assault'...Labor Day kind of ear marks the end of the major assault season...the water gets a break and we fisherman get a break in turn. It's always nice to not have to fish in a sea of aluminum, lol. bm

Still good points from all...color coding, being visible, expenditures, % of loss for C&R all make good sense to me...every aspect has to be considered. IMO the bottom line is most laws are broken to a degree. The system is overloaded with laws that are hard to enforce whether it be lack of personel or other determining factors. If all were good ethical outdoorsman it would help tremendously...NOT ! As CB implied...a 'perfect world', yeah...would be nice but it's not a reality. Simply put, there will always be bad apples and most laws and guidlines are bent or broken. If the conception of an idea such as this were offered as an option it would be liable to abuse as are they all. Possibly... if a percentage of the monies generated could be ear marked for use of additional enforcement it could be more attractive but could be frowned on by some. Those that have had a bad experience with law enforcement or use unethical methods would likely be the frowners...seems to me others wouldn't care. Laws are of no value if not enforced...too many laws, probably, too many guys looking over their shoulders, no doubt...goals, objectives and desirable results would be the same for all ethical fisherpeople and the people whom enforce them. IMO it all boils down to ethics, how open to abuse it is and how to avoid the associated problems which would go with the turf...that's the only given and everyone will never be happy, never have, never will. Seems to me it could be an option but will be open to abuse this being the case in most laws already on the books. 'A Perfect World'...would be nice but it's just not a reality these days. JMHO bm

Your right on CB, It's common to hear of people having 4 and 5 times their daily creel limits at their campsites...and I don't think for a second it aint happenen. More fuel for the debate, lol. bm

I've been watching this thread for awhile, glad it has turned out friendly. We're all just tryin to catch a fish...I know none or have met any of you I just know we all are fisherMEN. If it's your business who wouldn't really promote that a little. I feel Leonard has earned his nitch...just hope he doesn't burn out and not enjoy fishing as the result, have seen that happen. The fear of that has kept me away from it for years. From my observations this man is quite generous with info when ask, likes to play a little...who don't. Theirs little out there that has not been tried...just a little signurature twist put on it. I find it humerous to see the 'secret weapon'...a little mystik thrown in there...often lightens things up a little. Jest amoung fisherman...sure not worth ill feelings, ya know. jmo bm

Good points from everyone...interesting. It's hard to please all...seldom happens. IMO and as Dano said it should not affect any other fees in or out of state...just an option, whatever. You bet the mdc is watching...imo by voicing genuine concerns on a public forum pulls a little weight in the decision making progress. Who knows it better than the ones who fish it....could matter and nothing lost if it don't. mho bm

The Bald and Osprey units are also on stand by. Keep in mind the left wing faction of 'The Little Greenies'...they at times can infiltrate where others fall short...'Stretching' I believe is a special technique they use.

That's a dandy boar gill... I've always wondered...bro's, lol. bm

I feel the water useage is not the genuine concern here. Any ground contaminant (liquids, solids or otherwise) works it's way through the soil hence the ground itself becomes natures filtration system. Any surface contaminants within the watershed (the particular watershed in question Roaring River Spring) can and will impact the water quality of the spring that is recharged from that watershed. Rain water (ground water) is the factor which determines the spring outputs and this factor plus run off determines the water flow level of our streams. Both of these factors concerning any spring and it's TOTAL watershed will prove detramental to the water quality produced by the spring. This environmental impact has to be considered when water quality comes into question. The way it all works is often overlooked when 'Big Bucks' are to be made from any business or operation. All coldwater hatcheries rely on this with the exception of Shepard of the Hills which relys on the cold water due to the depth of Table Rock Lake which creates desirable water temps for trout production. The quality of water in Table Rock passes right down through a system of impounded waters, several lakes. When the headwaters or the source of water is not of good quality any and all bodies of water below the origin can and will suffer. It's a delicate balance and any interference by man can disturb "Natures Way" of the way the whole system works. This is my understanding and my opinion of the way it all comes together and I feel it is essential we must work with and understand "Natures Way". We can either work with nature or attempt to control...controlling tends to achieve undesirable results and seems to not be working to the benifit of both, so, we all must raise a new level of awareness in an attempt to work with, not control or we will eventually be the demise of the very things we cherish. We are CUTTING OUR OWN THROATS so to speak...the fix to me is to work together with nature instead of trying to control her...a better understanding and a new level of awareness must be achieved before desirable results will be seen. It saddens me the direction we are taking...something has to give and awareness is the first step. Big money often takes presidence but by allowing it we are enabling the direction we are headed. JMHO bm