MoCarp

How many times does the wrong fish get gigged?....." oh snap that was a trout"......toss it back...or "OH SNAP that was a big ol smallmouth"......I am not a fan of gigging

Salty today Billet? your point is taken, last time I looked not much mud in most white river chain of lakes, and carp commonly feed in middle and upper layers in the water column, its why we euro carpers use "Zig Rigs" to catch them "off bottom".....Bass and trout commonly eat crayfish and other bottom living organisms so technically they can be 'bottom feeders" and yes I understand the toxin accumulation in top end predator fishes... But I find it interesting when the "carp are bad people" veer uncomfortable topics off course My contention is this... Removing too many common carp (and by default ) Buffalo, data seems to suggest it can have an overall negative effect on the forage base of fish like Largemouth bass https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/367-toxins-and-food-webs

??? this thread is about fish eating fish...and that common carp are a better prey item nutritionally than trout which we know produce huge bass..and that removing too many carp can possibly have a negative effect on the carrying capacity of some waters

In carp angling they debate the value of HNV boilies (High Nutritional Value) to catch the largest specimen in a lake, the theory is that fish that can "sense" that certain foods are worth the effort to eat get bigger than fish that expend energy to eat anything...big brown trout and pike in some waters will cruse around and eat dead stocker trout laying on the bottom and get huge

perhaps more shore oriented prey are less available than before? perhaps shad are not so nutritious as say bluegills /greensunfish/crayfish/ or heaven forbid baby buffalo or baby carp? I know that the influx of the "newly american" harvesting fish in the drainage or perhaps crawfish too? rusty craws are a problem yet they run off from all the golf courses in Arkansas can't be good for the little lobsters...yet again more studies are needed

I noticed that the crawfish population in the elk river drainages are not as good as when I was younger...try catching some for bait you don't see the slab rocks that were in the creeks, people hauled them out for land escaping etc or gravels silted over the areas...perhaps prime crawfish habitat has degraded over the years...old timers always said the old holes have been filling in...sad to say not many old river rats still around that knew the drainage from way back

Studies show that common carp recruitment is poor because they are fed upon at all levels of growth until they reach a size too large for most fish to eat, however its documented large catfish (blue and fathead) take common carp at very large sizes..common carp in aquaculture environments reach 5 pounds in 3 years in a mild climate (unlikely in a wild or colder environment ) events that allow better YOY reciting for commons, usually are flood event years or in the north, in areas that experience winter kill in carp spawning wetlands (removes egg, larva, and fry feeders)

UPDATE recent TR sampling shows malnourished bass!

Where ever common carp occur they are a highly nutritious prey item

As does Lake Fork

As does Castaic lake that produces record bass and huge common carp

Lake Biawa holds the world record LMB and also produce MASSIVE Common Carp

Rainbow trout LONG known if bass or other fish feed on trout... grow to enormous size because of high lipid and caloric levels compared to most minnow forage species However Common Carp have FAR more lipid and caloric levels than Rainbow Trout Kansas State Record Channel Catfish was taken in a strip pit stocked with Trout- the Missouri record flat head catfish was taken in Montrose Lake, carp are the food of choice for mammoth catfish where available...high lipid levels are one key to better fish growth

WOW what venom...I in my 20's worked at a shoe factory in Carthage, Mo across the Street Ozark Mountain Lures Opened a tiny shop that made woodchopper lures (a few other models), Wyatt was the guys last name, think he was a teacher (shop?) at the High School, they had those duplicators... I stopped in the shop couple of times after work and shoot the chit saw how they made lures..still have some lures he gave me, if they did not float level they were seconds...those in the know liked the ones not level...they sometimes out caught the of the shelf ones......prob lots of them floating around Carthage...think he sold out and retired from money...a simple yet effective lure he made... so I say carry on, make a lure, don't let nay sayers slap you around those duplicators prob based on old schooI wood spindle or gun stock duplicator.. I think it may have been him that rigged up his "duplicators" so you might check some gun forums any ways

pay particular attention to the section on prey species, http://www.in-fisherman.com/bass/factors-giant-bass/

isn't some lakes in California closed to boats like 4 out of 7 days?

Fish and fishing have changed a lot in my lifetime...I started fishing in the late 60's ... then through my early adulthood in the late 70's... things have changed, way more people here than in my youth the turn of the century was as far removed from then as we are today from the 70's.......

great fishing = more fishermen = worse fishing...theres the rub isn't it?

wow we are in total agreement..never thought that would happen...perhaps a "living life rationing"

Its not only the genetics issue Catch and release works.... many fish, even on Taney have been recaptures... "Catch and release is an investment in future fishing success"- Quote from Bill Dance Over Time it happens, its something of concern as researchers are looking over old records and accounts photos etc..in some cases fishing is far better... but in search of better fishing genetics are a key issue today and the ability of a fish to reach a large size quickly...stream smallmouth are notoriously slow growers...everyone knew a smallish man in school...never will he reach 6 foot and was in 11th grade before his voice changed....we have inherited the smallmouth equivalent..the "right" genes are out there just need to have a program to locate and propagate those desired traits Yes I sure am...., a lifetime of knowledge of the outdoors and the science that drives the dynamics.....if I make you uncomfortable just hit the ignore button..if not think about what is being said with an open mind....would you rather have a day fishing an Ozark stream catching 2 pound smallies with a sprinkle of 5 pounders? instead of 10" bronze backs and a lone 2 pounder being a good day?

http://www.boatwakes.org I guess its an issue all over

Goose Fajitas??? must hear more!

LOL ..I am funnier in person

<----Slaps Britt because he has too much fun.....next time you talk to Roy ask him about the last time he had to go diving for the truck Keys as a note my health is getting better and I look forward getting back out more.....

walleyes are native to rivers in Missouri, the native strain get far bigger than the northern "lake strain" the state record of 22# came from Bullshoals downstream from power site dam....