Bill Babler

Super Report Denny. Sounds like you had one of those "Good Ole Goddins." I am back out of the Lodge on Thursday. Going to launch at Old 86 At 4:45, in the AM. Since we pretty much think alike, if there is any place that you are thinking about fishing, "Please, Don't, cause I may want to fish it." Stay in bed with your beautiful wife and sleep in. I know you are getting up in years and really, probably need a little rest. I have heard there is a very good drop shot bite up the Kings River. I will send you a couple of buck for gas, and you can check it out for me. I just don't have time to get there the way these Jaw's are a bittin. Your Buddy Bill PS Where was it again you caught all those Jaw's? That goes for you too Champ188.

Buster says it has to be 80Plus on the Surface for the big Jaw's to start.I got 83 degree on mine. "Ed Caught this great 20 inch Jaw at 5 AM on a Jig." Remember his 25 pound day last year up the James? Ed is a great fisherman and is completely gog/gog over big bass. Thursday thru Sunday, the Jig bite for me has really turned on. I have had the drop shot out a couple of times, but put it up if any wind is blowing. Great Smallmouth Fishing is at hand. "22 inch Jaw with a huge Gizzards tail and a Blue Gill tail sticking out of its craw. Fooled it on a Football Jig. My fish are coming in the 16 to 32 ft. range on the major main lake points fishing a special jig. I am using a 3/8th. oz jewell Football Jig, with a live rubber Chomper Spider skirt. Trailing it with any type of Slimmer. I perfer the Yum and the Yamamoto. Also the Chomper's is great, it is way more durable, but the others may get you a bite or two extra, but you will go thru twice as many. I am throwing this on a Cara T7 Finness Jig, with 12 pound Seugar The last few days we have put close to 18 pounds a day on 5 fish into the boat. Believe that would have won or been in the running on any of the derby's. I have been very fortunate to have trips with some very, very good sticks, and I even got to fish some. Been a real pleasure and I have just loved watching my guys catch big Jaw's, and catchin a few on my own. When these boys and girls are bitin, you can sit on that drop shot. Good Luck out there. Fish early and let the Big Boats have it Later.

Anytime a preson grabs a post and inserts it into their own, that makes it personal. You are not responding to the thread, you are directing it to the person that made the post by inserting it into your own. The only ruder, or more personal reply is all caps. The absolute only reason I made the post about shallow fishing is becaused that is the number one question on my emails, website, and personal contacts. I speak to literally tons of people per week that are not catching them shallow,and wonder what to do. My post to get out abit was just trying to help. I will not make that mistake again. Eric Prey, Don House and I, along with the other guides ask absolutely noting from anyone except, not to be Barbequed here for trying to help. We still have to have thick skin. The major problem that people have with Table Rock, is they are not catching them fishing shallow. I offered an alternative. Please take it or leave it. If you are a shallow water guy, that has no trouble on the Rock, great for you. I wish I could say that. I and the majority of folks cannot. Not doubting you in the least, I just cannot guide on it. My problem is when you take my post and insert it into yours and then fuss at me, for trying to answer questions that are asked of me, I have a problem with it. As far as the AIA. Is that how the AIA was won last week? Really? Pete has derbies this weekend next weekend and the next weekend. Pete is a great fisherman and great guy, and one of my good friends. He might have had his boat in 40ft. plus, fishing 20 ft. runnouts, using a deep cranker, and a jig, up the James, or he may have been fishing squarebills, and buzzbaits shallow. You decide. Good luck to you all. And for gosh sakes, fish where you want.

I've had a dose. I try. Would not have said a thing about the folks flogging the bank, but was asked to, as most are just not catching anything. Lots of inquiries on what they need to do. I correct myself. Really none of my business. I'm guiding everyday now and as I said on an earlier post, we are all just "Digging Ditches." You all enjoy your Summer.

Great Morning with a very good fisherman..

The 2pound vanish is all I use for the Micro's. Fishing this AM was still excellent for me. fish tended to want the smaller scud this morning, with the 2 units running fast, clear, and extremely low. Used a tandem double scud combo on one clients fly rod, size 14 and size 12 grey flash scud. Used the same size 14 scud on the other clients spinning rod, using a Full Pink Micro as the top fly and the scud on the bottom. 2 fish was the total on the pink jig, but dozens on the scuds. Most bites by far this morning on the smaller size 14. I reversed the scud at least 4 times from bottom to top and top to bottom of the fly rod, and they most always went for the 14. Nice to be able to experiment. Saw litterly 100's of fish in the restricted zone. It is no wonder they are biting, there are so many. Clients asked if we could reserve the last 30 minutes of their trip to fish below Fall Creek and catch them a fish apiece to grill for dinner. Had to drift almost 50 yrds. Just Silly. Almost forgot to point out, we saw a huge brown, on the reef just above Fall Creeks new dock. I am guessing probably at least 20 pounds, maybe bigger. Saw her and motored back above her for a second look, but couldn't find her. Very long thick fish. There were at least 4 other fish swimming with her. Don't know if they were also smaller browns, but I would bet they were.

Guys thanks for the great responses. Try and make a couple of point here that might help. Most of the guides now are just digging ditches. By that I mean working hard to keep their clients on fish. Whites early are there and gone. One day up Long Creek, next day in the North Pocket at 86. Next day at Emerald Point. Next day at State Part or Point 2. We will look for them for a while, but on a 4 hr. trip, we cannot "Dilly Dalley." It is hard to get folks out when they should be. Most trips will just not start before 6;30 or 7 AM. If we get lucky we can get a group out at 5 AM and that makes it so much easier. Topwater is by far better on Chugers and Splashers. Spook Jr. Sammy, Yellow Magic, Chugbug, or any of the slow stay in one place movers are absolutely head and tails above the wakers right now. Topwater bite,is just slower than it should be. As was pointed out, by working at it hitting each point and working it with some precision, you will get a bite or two on most locations. Especially if you are the first flogger of the day. Right now the topwater will produce more Jaw's and LM than K's. The K's are just not coming up so activly as their other cousins. Of course as soon as I say this it will be all K's. Jig bite is being slow to come on. Buster told me yesterday, he cannot understand it. He says when the water hits 80 the SMJ's usually eat that pbj to their A--. Have caught several on sloping 45 degree chunk rock banks, with a little wind. It is for sure not going strong yet. Bide my words, these Smallmouth are going to be on that jig in a matter of days or hours. Then it will be for sure on. Throw it 16 to 32 on the gentle sloping stuff, and drag it like a rig on the flat gravel, same depth. Drag bite at the dam is really pretty fair, as most of the moss is gone. Look 12 to 30 of the flats and points, with the 4 inch slimer of your choice. Spoon bite if good in and around the deeper docks, and cables. My choice is a 1/2 of white spoon, but the chrome will catch them also. Not a bad idea to fish the shallows of the docks with the jig, and move out to the front, pitching the spoon. Dropshot is different all over the lake, but for sure can catch fish. Dam to Baxter area, start at 26 ft. early and they will just keep getting deeper by the minute. Most end up by 10 AM at about 40 to 42 with some shallower in the brush piles if you can find them. Those MDC piles might really be the ticket. I am using Chompers brown purple lam. right now, and the plum is also very good. I believe it is producing as well as either crawlers or the Yamamoto's on our current fish. Don't know if this helps. Good Luck out there.

Buster and I picked up clients at Big Cedar at 6:30 this AM and went on a mad dash to see if we could find some schooling white bass. NODAA Nice cloud cover,but maybe just abit to much breeze for where we were lookin. Went to work with Greg and Nick with the Yellow Magic, and had several very nice topwater fish, including the 3 pound Meaner that Greg wrestled to the boat. This fish jumped 4 times and just put on a show, pulling drag. Could not get any looks or swirls on a fin. Just about had a dose of it, but I keep dragging it out for no aparant reason. Caught several jig fish in, I'm going to say about 15ft. seems the moss is almost gone. Still abit here and there,but the lake is much more fishable. When to the dropshot using a combination of crawlers and Chompers brown purple Lamb. Really didn't matter, they both worked. Had 17 very nice fish on the shot, fishing flat gravel main lake points in the 32 foot range. Not lots of fish per location, and we caught everyone I saw, and none I didn't. Greg caught this nice 3.5 K on a shot at 40 ft. on the bottom, our deepest fish. Nick's nice K came in about that 32 ft. range, on the bottom. I just saw it lift up and told him to drop, and Wham! Some of the crazest weather and cloud cover I have ever seen. Lots of pictures on the news this evening, and here is another couple

Breakwaters are A-OK, they are outside the boundary limit. My gosh! if it were up to some of these floating gas stations, there would be no fishing on this pond. Just Jetskis and Cobalts.

Here is a list of the docks that you are prohibited from Fishing; Cricket Creek Marina State Park Marina Indian Point Marina 13 Marina or Port of Kimberling Marina Cape Fair Marina Baxter Marina Campbell Point Marina Viola Marina Big M Marina Eagle Rock Marina Holiday Island Marina All others are open game. The only other one that might be in qestion is Hideaway up the James as they I believe have gas on the dock. All others are OK.

T. you and Mrs. T. are "True Sportsman." You both are stewarts of the land and water, and represent what is good in all outdoors people. I consider it an honor and a privledge to call you both friends. I look on you both with admiration and the upmost respect. Sincerely Bill Babler

Little more research on the copperheads. There are over 3000 bites by copperheads every year. There have only in the history of records been two deaths contributed to the bites. One was a reaction to the horse suyrum and the other was mulitple bites, by multiple snakes. No details on the person that was bit by all the different heads at the same time. For sure sounds like being in the wrong place at the wrong time. One report I read said if you die from a copperhead bite, it was probably just your time, or there was really something else wrong with you in conjunction with the bite. Copperheads, just don't kill people. Still would hate to be nipped! Yes, I have had snakes come in the boat at night. Was retrieving a lure once in the brush, and had a watersnake shake loose and fall into the boat. Partner jumped out immediatly as it hit right at his feet. I would still be laughing at that one, except he lost is rod and reel in the lake when he jumped in.

Sounds like you had a wonderful evening. Was wondering if the late bite was going to come on. Good to hear it has for the one day anyway. Liked your rock pattern. Pretty exciting to just throw it up along the shoreline and get a blowup. Really don't happen here that often. Great Report

Taneycomo, for the first time this year, has turned into a lake. Most of the late Winter season and thru Spring, it has fished and moved like the river it really is. No more early morning drift rigs, or bottom bouncing, no more troutlining, and deep nympthing,"26ft.from indicator to the fly." now is the time to get small and fish some of the tiny tineys, we as fly fishermen like to present. Had a day off, and helped in the Kitchen until 8:30 and Becky gave me a pass to go fishin. Met Phil around 9:30 and he had been out for a while and was just tearing them up on the straight line jig. I oppted for a dry and midge tandem presentation. Took a while but figured it out with a pinch of breeze. As the sun began to shine, fish migrated to the bluff shadows to sulk and wait for cloud cover or breeze. During these periods, Phil fished a beaded scud as close to the bank as he could get it, throwing it very nicely under the overhands. When he hooked a fish, a dozen or two would follow it from their shaddowy haunts. On puffs of breeze or cloud cover, the fish would zoom onto the flats to feed. Small midge hatches were coming off as well as the bottom just being loaded with scuds, and sow bugs. They looked mostly to be soft-grey in color and some pretty big sizes up to 10. Mostly 14's thru 18's. Best presentation for me this AM was the midge in size 16. Black body with a red rib, and copper tungston head. I fished it in the shaddows, picking off a few of Phil's leavings, and on the clouds and breeze would whirl and heave it onto the shallow flats. The size 16 midge was suspended about 8 inches under the dry fly indicator, and it was just slammed on these presentations. Pattern that always catches them on this type of water is the Tuner Jones Micro Jig. Full and 1/2 micros suspended below the strike indicator of your choice are usually gobbled up with glee. I like to present this small jig, a few inches off the bottom and shock the strike indicator from time to time for the movement. Don't belive it really needs any, but I believe I'm fishing when I do it. Favorite colors are sculpin, ginger, brown and olive/copperhead, on the still water, all being naturals. Midge patterns are for sure whats on the table as they are always in good taste. I like the blacks, greens and the Red-ribbed zebra. We are for the most part fishing these flys on 2 pound test flurocarbon, as the tippet material. Depending on depth of the water, I usually suspend the midges, 6 inches to two feet under my float. I try and use the smallest strike indicator I can, or a dry fly to detect the slightest nudges. I believe Phil will have something to add, and he took a few pic's this morning of our trout. I cannot say I have had a more enjoyable morning. Get out and fish the little stuff, it is really fun.

Sam, I had a similar story, but I for sure was not attached to the stringer. Had one get a big bluegill I had on a stringer fastened to a willow on my inlaws pond bank one time. I unlike you gave him the stringer and the fish. I was not that mad at him. Don't know if it was a cottonmouth or not. Really did not care. Had a nice visit with SK, while I was in the Barber shop waiting to get both my top and bottom two hairs cut. On the thread fin issue, we probably had one of the biggest die-offs in my guiding career here. It lasted as long as I have ever seen, and may be some of the issue. SKMO reported them spawning this morning in high numbers were he was fishing. Good Sign. The only Cottonmouth I have ever see on the Rock, was when I was with Bill Anderson on a fish servey in 04. We had 2 between the electrodes, that evening and the biologist identified them as such, so I knew they were. Short very dark and extremely thick, with the snow white gaping jaws. We also had 10's of other harmless water snakes about, but the college boys, pointed out the biters. Copperheads on the other hand I have seen for years. They are beautiful. Compeletly bronze with the classic V shaped head and a true pit-viper. I have pinned many and always examine their fangs to make sure, but have seen enough so I know them. Like SKMO, have never seen one in the water. Usually on the roads at night or early or late soaking up heat. Lady that owned the Timbers Resort was bitten one night several years ago after dark walking in flip-flops. They also had another guest bitten by one. With the research I have done, there has never been a fatality of a human by a copperhead bite. When she was bitten, the way she explained it to me was like being stung by two red wasps. YUCK Cottonmouth is another story. Completely agree with SK. You all had better start looking deeper for the bass type fishes, and it might be time to put those topwater baits away and work that jig, early and often. Good Luck

No generation, and fishing completely off the charts. Group of 3 from Lilleys' this AM and to say it was wonderful would be an understatement. Going to guess probably close to 70 fish to the boat with the majority over 14 inches. Just flat beautiful colored up toads. Vibrant Ruby red gill plates contrasted with bright silver sides to make it a no brainer to know you were on to a spectactular taneycomo rainbow. Flat water no generation, and this is what a natural ginger or sculpin green 1/256th. oz micro jig is made for. We were fishing them from Fall Creek to the Short Creek Ramp. Setup was a 7ft. White River Outfitters Rod with 6 pound Maxi, to a carrot float. Tippet was 2 pound Vanish F.carbon with the little jig hanging in their face at about 7 ft. deep. Slight shocks on the indicator kept the interest up. Bite was firm and they hung onto it. Usually on newbies, we miss more than we catch. Not this morning, as they just swarmed the bait. Not uncommon to see 5 following in the one you had on a leash. I will say, we didn't catch a fish under 11 inches. REally magnificent. MDC, has really put the muzzle on me this Spring with the way they have stocked this river. All I can say is I appreciate it and so should everyone else that loves fishing here. Good Luck

dtrs5, that is an instant classic!

Jay bird, for me by 9:30 AM out of the Big M area to Shell Knob, it was getting pretty "UnBearable." I am a deep fisherman, this time of the year, as are most of the guides and we are out on the main lake, channel swings and humps. Every Cobalt, SeaRay, Crownline, or Mastercraft likes to see if they can come within spitting distance of you. Back in the pockets after gills would have been ok. On the Snake note, and for some reason this is a LOLLIPULIZER RIGHT NOW. I have seen 3 Copperheads so far this year, and I know as I have handled them and used a stick to see their fangs. 1 at Cooper Creek Ramp, and two on the road to the lodge. This weekend they had one of the worst incidents at Dogwood Canyon in their history. A walker was severly bitten by a Cottonmouth. "I guess there is no other kind than a severe snake bite." We had guests there at the time and he was transported to St. Johns. Have not heard a disposition. I have seen as many watersnakes as I have ever seen, including the flood season, and if they are on the water, they always try to get in the boat back by the motor. On the fin deal. Traditionally a fin is not a year long topwater bait. It has been used here for over 20 years. It is an early season bait, and always fades away to some extent this time of the year. Always has. Don't get me wrong, it still works, and will work on chasers, but to tell you the truth, I don't have any tied on and probably won't for the remainder of the Summer. These fish right now are coughing up and eating Gizzards. I like SKMO am not seeing tons of Threadfin Shad, but am seeing huge populations of Giz. Good Luck

Nice report. If it would have been me, I would have heaved the kids over the backside of the boat to swim, and kept on chugging that spook. I have had multiple clients in the water, ususally the wife, while the guy continues to catch fish. Mostly deep fish however. Lots of fun and a very nice James River Report. Thanks. On a Darker Note. Started out of Viney Creek, at 5 AM and there were already lots of fishermen on the water. Couple of my favorite hot spots had folks on them. Hope they caught them. Worked my way toward the Knob, and had 10 topwater fish, with nothing to really brag about. Zero on the Fin, all on a Spook. Fin bite for me is getting close to being over. Don't know why. I can catch Schoolers on it now, but cannot bring fish up to take it. Also if there are Whites, they seem to like the chugger better than the waker. Much smaller profile. Best topwater the last few days for me has either been a chug bug or a yellow magic. I will say, fishing was good on a rig, with most fish in the 26 to 32 ft. range, and on a jig. I am using a Chomper 1/2 oz. with a Yum watermellon candy trailer or the same trailer on a Jewell. Caught some very nice K's, and then "They Came." Shell Knob has really for the past several years been one of the hardest places to either boat or fish on the major holidays, just due to the restricted width of the water and the "Gigantic Boats" Unlike Tapouts report of not seeing lots of boats, this was not the case at Shell KNob. It was simply covered up with 22 to 32 footers. Around 11 AM on a full day trip I started taking waves over the sides of the boat and decided it was getting close to being over. As soon as the big rigs started running, the fishing got tough. Some of the boys fished from Baxter to Campbell Point on Sunday, and reported that big stretch of water just about unfishable due to the size of the boats and the waves. Most guided trips now will need to be out early, but at 5:30 there were jet skis running hard out of Viney Creek. However, it is good to see the economy back and doing well, and I believe most of the Marina's showed record sales on gas and other fun in the sun items. Get out early, and then go have fun with the family.

Appreciate the post and the pic's great day. "LOOK OUT JAMES RIVER, WE ARE ALL COMMIN TO JOIN YA." You can bet after reading this, there will be a little attention paid to the James the rest of the week, with most of the Lake reporting a very slow bite. I presume Snakem was fishing the James yesterday when he reported a fantastic topwater bite. Just not happening on the rest of the lake today. Buster did report a very good topwater bite yesterday at Baxter, but absolutely nothing today. It is a huge lake, and you would think they had to be biting somewhere. Trouble is it is almost impossible for most of us to get our clients up and moving when the fish are going their best. The gents I am taking tomorrow, said if they have to get up before 7 AM "No Fish was Worth That." Needless to say, we are going trout fishing, but that is also a pretty early bite. Get out early and follow the shade or fog. I will bet, when its gone, so is the bite. Good Luck, and great report.

Was on Taney today, but the guides phones were hot as the weather. Rock fishing from one end of this pond to the other, was more than a challange. It seems right now, if you don't get those White's to break for you early, you are going to be introuble once the fog lifts and the sun starts hitting the water. Spoke to the following guides, Don House, Tim Paige, Buster Loving, Bill Beck, all reported you pretty much had to pull out all the tricks after about 7:30AM not to catch a fish, but just to get bit. Dam area, if you can find some whites, you are lucky. Don is still on them, and Tim Paige found some to help a very slow morning. Top water bite was non-existant lake wide, with almost zero Black Bass Species on top. Whites were in very selected places, and up from 5 AM till the latest around 7:30. Don is still on the best bite. A bite that has been pulling us up is the Zoom Super Fluke, they were not having that either today. Just pretty tough. The Fin bite has also started to deminish, in most locations. Seems the spook is now and will be for the remainder of the summer, a better topwater choice. Swimming a grub in the dam area today was as Paige put it useless. Dropshot fish are still being very hard to find. Beck also fished the Kimberling to Dam area, and caught several very large Jaw's dragging a cenipede in 30 ft. Not many bites mind you, but big bites. Buster fished Baxter to Campbell Point, and reported his poorest day on Table Rock in 20 yrs. No surface activity, and fish just unavailable by either dragging, grub or dropshot. Water was slick and it was terrible. It has just been the doldrums, and we need some overcast and breeze. Hang in there, the dropshot fish should be close.

Corp. slowed the water down a bit today, and man we needed that to happen. It has been running high clear and cold, 42 degrees. Still some hunks of moss coming thru and quite a bit on the bottom in the restricted zone. The best bite continues to be early. If your careful, the fog is not a real problem, just take a little more time getting where you need to go. Restricted zone early has a very nice scud bite using as big as 10's but best is probably a 12. Some reports on egg flys catching fish, but I have done poorly on the egg, catching the majority on the scud. I have been dragging it on a drift rig with a 1/4 oz. bell. Today with the slower water has been the first good day for flying or jig and float. Steve Dicky reports the size 12 scud is by far the best fly. He is using 18 ft. of tippet, and 3 AAA shot to get it down. He is running a tandum both scuds. He believe the egg is a deterant right now, and is not using it. Best scuds are silver, grey or black. Below the restricted area, some very nice fish are being caught on the inside bends of the upper lake from Fall Creek down thru Cooper Creek, and from the Highline wires above Monkey island to the new 65 bridge. This continues to be a very early bite tappering off to almost zero, as the sun gets high and the fog burns off. Best bait by far is 1/2 of a night crawler on a drift rig, or minnows. Best bite from daylight, to about 9 AM and that is pushing it. You will catch more fish between 6 AM and 8 AM than you will the rest of the day, all put together. The evening bite has been extremely poor. There are plenty of fish, the feeding patterns have just gotten very restricted with the large volume of water and the high sun. Good Luck

Donnie, I thanked Troy at the ramp. What a real gentlemen. He kept moving out of the way so both your's and my clients would be on the fish. Again, really appreciate it. I have fished all over the country, and have never seen the respect the guides here have for each other, it is just wonderful. Everyone of us wants the others guides clients to do well. Troy gets great marks in my book for today. Sam, we did throw the bigger fish back, only had 4 in that 2 pound plus range, but chunked them back, thinking they would be fishy. Will try your 7UP method. Should I add a splash of Crown Royal to it? I think that might make anything better. Great morning on the water, when it really was not that good. Only was, because of the other people we had on the water. Good Luck, and God Bless you all.

Kind of got crossways on my trip this morning. Becky had booked it and I will tell you she is the best, but forgot to tell the folks, I might not be the best choice if you want to Butcher a Smallmouth. These folks were here 15 years ago, and said their guide filleted for them about 1 dozen Smallmouth bass up to about 13 inches. I Told them that was illegal then and is now, and for that matter, even if they were keepers, we just don't kill that type of fish any more. This is only the second time this has happened to me in the last 18 yrs. with the misunderstanding, and Capt. Don, came to the rescue. Saw Donnie at the ramp and he put me on a very nice set of White's. Just the ticket for my Seafood Loving Crew. Put 16 nice whites in the box in about 2 hrs. of great action. These were not so much chasers, and it was not my method, but Capt. Don's, so I won't go further on location or methods. When the White's were no longer available, we swam a grub, and caught 7 very nice Smallmouth, keeping the boat in about 25 and throwing in on flat gravel. We were at least two casts off the bank, and I know that is hard to make yourself do, but at the dam, it is a necessary evil. Dam area is still mossy, and on slick water very, very tough. You got to resort to some very tricky methods to do very well, if you can't find the White's. There was no topwater bass action that I could find, and we were out by 5:30 AM. By the way, I would guess Don and his guests from the looks of them probably caught in excess of 50 whites, maybe more, I know he had 3 guys, at times it looked like a Chinese Fire Drill in his rig. Thanks again Don.

RPS, check out the pic's of todays topwater catches on my website. www.whiteriveroutfitters.com To lazy to repost all of them here this time. Will on the next batch. Chris Tetrick had about 30 topwater fish this morning including some very nice white bass. Bill Beck had about the same as Chris. On our Corporate deal on Saturday, Tim Paige's clients had over 60 topwater fish up to a great 4 pound LM. Did not give anyone a lie detector test, but his clients were just grinning from "Ear to Ear." I saw so many pic's that the 60 number was probably right on. Today, I saw almost all the fish we caught. Really one of the best ways to find them, is just to drive till you see them working and slam on the brakes and start winging. I will tell you I saw boats drive right thru huge swirls of fish. I just ran over into their boat wakes several times and thumped them. Guess they had bigger ones else where. Couple of times today, we were in over 150 ft. catching topwater fish. Most however came on long points or cove mouths.