Bill Babler

We have had over 140 views of this topic, and only really 3 responses. If you look at it let us know. This is no big deal only an opinion and we really would like to hear from you. Thanks Bill

OK boys, a little more info. Lets say we are either looking at the Kvichak or the Naknek. Both are accessable from King Salmon, so your responsible flights would be to King Salmon from your home base. Why these two rivers. First and formost, they are the absolute top rainbow rivers in Alaska. If you go, your chance of catching a 10 pound rainbow, is just about 100 percent, at the right time on the Naknek. and about 70 percent on the kvichak. They are also two of the top red salmon rivers in alaska for the salmon catchers. Both have numbers of Kings, Chums, and Pinks, but are really not a huge factor, however the lower Naknek around the Big Creek area can be outstanding, in mid to late june to mid-july, especially on hardware. Nither of these rivers blow out, thanks to being drainages from huge lakes. Very little chance of a flood or muddy water. Both have multiple tributaries that are accessable by boat from the lodge, to make multiple fishing opportunities, for multiple species. ie grayling and char. These trips would be offered on a daily basis. Both being on Bristol Bay have a multitude of fantastic fly out possibilities, usually at under 400 per person per day. Duane, no flyouts are included, but would be available. I want to see some numbers, and if you have a reason behind your numbers, let me know. Again, remember this is a first class lodge with complete private quarters including full baths, with an outstanding lodge. internet and satalite TV in the main lodge. All boats and equipment will be new in 2009, and the guides will be very experenced on the river. Either of these lodges will look very similar to my lodge in missouri www.whiteriverlodgebb.com Just not as large, but very similar. The only difference is our guest here stay in the lodge and in Alaska, you will be in private cabins within a couple of hundred feet of the lodge. Get back at it, and let me know. Remember, Alaska is way different logistically from the western U.S. as far as just getting supplies for day to day operation. Give me your best guess for a great package price on either of these rivers, with the accomodations described.

Guys and gals, I want to throw this out for some serious feedback. As you all know Phil and I fish and guide Alaska every year. Looking at the near future an current financial climate, for a one week fishing adventure trip to the last frontier, what do you think would be a realistic price per person with this as a senerio as far as lodging, meals and guide service, ie a turn key trip. What price would you say, man I can do that, for what I'm getting, that is a very serious, good deal. If its to low, its not realistic and people will really doubt the sincerity and quality. Make this what you think it should be. 5 days, 6 nights lodging; Fully furnished Cedar Cabin with complete ammenities, and shower faculities in the cabin. Really self contained to house 2 guests per cabin. 1st. class, cabin sits with-in a rock throw of the number 1 salmon and rainbow river in Alaska. 3000 sq. ft lodge with full meal service including evening cocktails. Lodge features dining area over looking the river with living room and fireplace with gathering room. All meals are of course included. 5 days of guide service either salmon hardware or fly fishing, and rainbow arctic char and grayling on the fly. Salmon cleaned and packaged to take home. Bear viewing and sight seeing. This is a complete turn key trip to one of the best fishing destinations in North America. Your only responsibility is airfare to and from the Lodge. Usually about a Thousand. Just give me a price of two or ask me any question you like. Would love to hear from everyone on this Thanks Bill

Donna, great to see ya back on the board. Guiding and tournament fishing are just about as polar opposites as it comes. The boys did a great job with the reply's. 4 years ago when Tim Sainato and I won the overall points championship in the Heartland Buddy division and came in 3rd in the fish off on grand lake, I believe we won a total of about $19,000 for the year in all the stuff we fished. With missed guide trips and the practice days we put in, my lost income alone was over $20,000. I had the resources for this loss, and it was not a problem. Most of the guides don't. They can't take a week off prior to the derby and fish for the type of fish you need to win these events, they have to take clients to catch fish. IF fish are not on live bait or drag baits, you are really in trouble, as most of these wonderful folks, just do not have the ability to catch them. AS for myself, I for the most part would have a hard time hitting the water out of the Titanic. As Champ pointed out, we just don't fish that much. I probably don't fish 50 days a year, and I guide 250. Yes, I know where concentrations of catchable fish are, and seasonal patterns but catching derby fish is a complete nother matter. Also as Champ pointed out. When the limits were high, we were great. I remember when the Shell Knob derby used to be 10 fish. We could win it anytime we fished it, as 10 keepers, were no problem. The only problem, was guide trips paid more than the first prize of the derby. This Summer Bill Beck fished a 2 day derby on LOZ. He practiced 3 days before the tournament. That was 5 days at the height of our season, and he missed a corporate two day trip that he is usually on, plus 3 other days of guiding. Well over $2,200.00 not even including tips. This group is big tippers. Usually between 50 and 100 bucks per day. With expenses and entry fees even if he won, he was not going to breakeven. Bill has the resources to do this. again, most hard working guides do not. Could you tell your wife, I'm going to blow off $3,500.00 for a chance to win $1,900. Most of us can't. Look at some of the area derby winners. Most have very good jobs or have investments an retirements with income in the 6 figure range and also the ability to take time off when they want. Some don't mind ya, but go down the CPA or Heartland money boards and you can pretty much see that these guys have the time and resources to do what they want. When the prize money is not important and it is just for the winning and the compitation, that is when you will do your best. I still have to work as do most of the guides here, and that has nothing at all to do with tournament fishing. Tournament fishing is for fun. Guiding is going to work. Work pays the bills, derbys just cost money.

S&M Great post again. I mentioned a week or so ago that the rangers are going to work the parks all winter, so you had better be legal. Lots of folks think that just cause nobody is in the shack in the winter, that they can use the park for free. Not happening, if you are parked in the Corps parks and don't have the sticker, you will get caught. Excellent information, about the sticker number. Glad you got off.

Great Report! Sounds like a blast. That spoon and deep grub bite has been going on quite a while now. Most of these K's are located just where you described them. Some on the main channel however, usual spoon spots including humps and channel swings. Man if there is a deep dock present that makes it super good. 1/2 way back in some of the big coves and creek arms on channel swings can be great. We have been drop-shotting nice K's on guide trips for the last month, in these exact locations. A couple of weeks ago, Bill had about 50 fish in a location like you discribed. Buster had a morning very similar up Long Creek. His clients caught and released over 70 on night crawlers. The usual parade of shiner fisherman, have been at it for a month, filling their freezers. Usually we would be over joyed to hear this, but this is a very strange year. When I can go down a bank throwing a jig or wart in the Middle of December catching 4 to 7 pounders, it make it pretty hard to pick up a spoon, and dangle it deep for K's. Look at what its taking for these derbys. 18 to 24 pounds a week. If you weigh-in a Kentucky, you are pretty much out of the money, unless it is one of those Hog Momma's like the 4 pounder you had. Just not enough 4 pounders out there. Those deep Kentucks are not going anywhere, and I'm going to keep hammering these big LM and Small Jaws, as long as they will have it. Your probably right, this cold snap may be the start of the end of the shallow bite. We'll all join you out after the deep ones. Super Report

I believe the new ownership in CPA is going to do wonders for the organization. CPA for the past 10 years has been getting some very negitive responses from amatuers, tournament participants, and just fisherman, as being a very Cut-Throat-Bunch. Lots of great guys, but for sure some bad apples in the bunch. I don't think Jim will put up with any of the Schannagans some of the premadonnas fishing out of the front of these boats have been getting away with. I am not going to say Pro's, cause for the most part they are not. A professional at anything derives 90% of their income from the business that they are suspose to be a professional in. Most of these guys, Great Fisherman, work a job somewhere, and are not full time fisherman. As far as the Heartland Series, just have not seen these guys displaying anything like the CPA guys. Yes there are people fishing both, and lots of them, but there are also different people fishing each circuit. Ralph has never put up with borish behavior, cutting people off, amatuers not being able to fish, or poor sportsmanship, He won't have it. Heartland is known for being amatuer friendly and having the guys in the fronts, almost guide or do what ever they can to make the guy in the back have a very good knowledgable experence. Don't get me wrong, they are there to win, but brow-beating and using up every little bit of water is not how Heartland has ever been viewed. I believe you are going to see more of this in CPA under Jim Thompson, and a lot less squabbles. Long answer for a short question, but I would give either one a try and see how you like em. You can bet Jim is going to do a great job, with CPA.

Got out with Beck to do a little mid-day fishing, on friday. Our start time was 11 AM and we fished till about 4 Pm. Water was slicker than a gut, but gosh and golley these fish are wanting to feed. Did just about a little of everything today from right on the bank to 47 ft. spoon fish, just fish about everywhere. Ended the 5 hr.mid-dayer with about 1 dozen keepers up the 5.5 lbs. Best deal however is still the jig. Little report on the Ahoy's Winter series. Don't know the names and particulars, only that it took a ton of fish to win on Saturday. 1st. 23 lbs 2nd. 22 lbs 3rd. 19 lbs 4th. 18 lbs 5th. 17 lbs Do know the 1st. place team took a huge ride up the White River, about a 90 mile round tripper. Second place team had a bag full of 4 lb. Brown Bass. Don't really know what this cold snap will bring, but for now the fishing is just about as good as it can get. Winners bite came on a 5/8 football 15 to 20 ft. on the flats up the White River. Way Up. Water is gin clear up there, and for that matter is is pretty durn clear at Kimberling where we fished. White spoon at 18 ft. is visible. I didn't fish this weekend, had the lodge to myself as Becky went to visit her folks. And they say guys can't cook and clean.

1308 Lived at Sk for 20 years, and have never heard it called anything but Sweetwater. If someone says Kings River Access, Now I'll know. Thanks for the info. I think we all are getting the Winter Brain F--ts.

Of course its Sweetwater, what a dummy. Big Bay is out YY hwy out of Shell Knob on the way to Campbell Pt. You just hang a left and drop down into Big Creek. It is very well marked.

Wacked, everything that Eric said. The only difference is we found fish as I posted on either this or another thread really bunched up. We had as many as 5 follow a hooked one to the boat. Once you find one of these spots, you can, cause we did. Just look for others that are similar. A good example would be the inside point at old 86 camp ground on both sides of the long 86 point, along with the point. You wanted the depth to be a very gradual fall, as to keep your wart in the strike zone as much as possible. You also wanted as both Eric and I have mentioned some junk like big size rocks for the baits to bounce up over. I was swimming a jig, and Bill the wart. As soon as we would bounce or hang a bit, we would snap the bait up. Lots of times instant bite. They for sure are not everywhere, but once you find them, they are great. Several guys fished with-sight of Ahoy's had had 10 to 15 keepers. Buster Loving and his son, fished all day in that area and had over 15 pounds with his son winning a $500.00 savings bond for top youth fisherman. Bet he didn't use 3 gallons of gas and had a dozen or more keepers. Those kinds of banks. In the last 2 or 3 weeks there has been 500 pounds of bass released in there, you might want to give it a fling. Won't take you long to get on the right spot. Did have a couple of keeps on a blade in the wind. Both were LM, within 5 ft. of the flat banks. Good Luck

Shell Knob is free, but Campbell Point is a Corp. ramp and you will need to have your ducket showing or you will get fined. If you are fishing the SK area, the following ramps are free; Shell Knob Bridge, H hwy. ramp, Turkey Mountain Estates No.2, You can get away with Big Bay, never had a problem. Pay ramps are Campbell Pt., Viola, Eagle Rock, Big M. There are others in the area, but you ought to be able to get your stuff wet at one of these. Big Bay is a Corps Park, it is just very seldom used, on the other hand you better divie up to launch there. Boy's for the life of me I have forgotten the name of the ramp up the Kings on the Southwest Side. Used to be a park, but closed now. You can also launch there. Know it as well as my own name, but just can't call it now. Hickory Hollow also allows launching up the Kings river for a fee. I believe its 3 tokens per launch.

That's the kind of Breaking-News we have all been hoping to hear. Champ, how long is she going to have to remain in the hospital and what is the length of recovery before she is out flinging steel? Sincerely the Babler's

T. there is a stickbait bite right now, and from what I hear a good one. Have not thrown it as the wart bite is so good. Eric I believe tossed it Saturday and I know for sure Mike W. and Steve B. threw it on Saturday, as Steve said the majority of their limit came on it. Don't know how fast they are working it, but the fish seem to want the wart pretty fast and they like the jig swimming along the bottom. Eric I'm sure can tell you how they were working it. Beck went again yesterday, he is absolutely eaten up with catchin them. He said it was beyond belief with fish up to 7.5 and several over 5 pounds. Asked him if he caught any big SJ's and he said No nothing over 4.5. I said "DUDE"!!!!!!!!!!, Since when is a 4 and a half pound Jaw not a big fish. He said,"Since two weeks ago". Lilleys' annual Christmas Party is today at the Lodge, or I would be out flogging the bushes. If I would leave Becky to handle this I would be in deep Kim'shee. Hope this still holds up after the cold snap. Eric, you are right Buddy, I have not seen the Rock like this since the 70's. Happy Holidays All

Great one Eric, but listen to this. In last weeks derby, Beck set the hook on a fish and it was coming pretty good and all of a sudden he couldn't pull it. thought my gosh, this fished either is foul hooked or has wrapped around something. He kept prussure on the fish and when it was just about to the net, looked down and saw what the heck was going on. He had a very nice 17 inch keeper SJ, and clamped around its middle was about a 8 to 9 pound LM, tugging back as hard as it could on the mid-section of the Jaw. The jaws of the LM completely went around the SJ. right in the middle. It's head and tail were hanging out each side on it's mouth. I know the first liar dosen't have a chance, but this deal happened. Of course the LM let go before the net got there. Don't think you could count it anyway. We also had a least 3 fish over 5 pounds follow others we had on to the boat. And also had a time or two, 5 or 6 came to the boat following the hooked fish. They were just buzzing her head, trying to get the wart from the side of her jaw. It is really just crazy right now. Temp tomorrow, is going to be 47 to 52 and cloudy. You will absolutely get your arm broke and your equipment wrecked out there. These fish are still right on the bank to 15 ft. Go get em. Today would have been the complete BOMB, perfect conditions.

Donnie, it took 18.67 to win. There were 10 teams within 3 pounds. Bill and I were very fortunate to have the 18.67. Spoke again to some guys fishing today, and the crankbait bite was just as good. Lots of fish.

God Bless you Donna, and we will all be keeping you in our prayers. Nothing wrong with your three fish, you were out there giving it your all on a very cold blustry day. There were people that did not weigh in any fish. The fish yesterday for us were on a vey specific pattern, and had been so for at least 2 weeks. Once you got that figured out, you could catch multiple fish off each spot. Maybe only two or three, but the right places held fish. A couple of times we decided to just try something else, and would strike out. So we put on our thinking caps, and just fished where the fish were. God's speed on your recovery Sincerely Bill

Jim Thompson kicked off his first tournament as the new owener of CPA with a buddy event out of Ahoy's Saturday. The 7AM start was greeted with some pretty cold and extremely windy conditions. Water surface temps went from lows of 53 to highs of 58, depending on your location. The bite the last week has really ben phenominal. It is taking 18 to 23 pounds to win anything and usually 17 pounds just to cash a check. There is a very good crankbait pattern if you are in the right place. You really need chunkrock for this bite and you for sure don't want it to be very steep. These locations are not easy to find, but they are out there. Wind seals the deal and wiggle-warts are the fish catchers. Football jigs in PBJ or any of the naturals such as green pumpkin or watermellon candy are also getting lots of attention from these fish, wanting to take on a load of daddy's before it turns super cold. Try looking about 1/2 way back in some of the major cove arms. Secondaries with docks that gently slope seem to be the best. Once you see these spots, and catch a fish on them you will just know. This last week, we have caught fish on every stop, using this pattern. Bill fished the lake all week, and I fished a couple of days. Since last Saturday, he has caught over 125 keepers. Most of these coming from 4 to 16 feet. Believe it or not, there is also a stickbait bite starting. Some of these larger cove pockets are holding shad and you can almost pick your spots watching the gulls. Deep fish are also available under the gulls, but derby fishing, these K's will only get you a hardy thanks for the contribution. Another good tip is to gear your jigs down, to about as small as you can throw. Use either the smallest football, or better yet 5/16th. round heads, with small crawtrailers. Fish these jigs on 10 or no larger than 12 pound test. You will get way more bites than on 15 or heaver. Keep your jig, moving, almost swimming it along the bottom. When you bump a rock, snap the rodtip up and let the jig fall back. Can't tell you how many we are catching like that. Jim is going to do a great job with this CPA. The give-a-ways after the derby were fantastic. I believe about 500 cash and other fishing gear. Get out there right now and catch some of these fish. Heard reports yesterday of them biting this same pattern from one end of the lake to the other, with some huge strngs of fish coming out of Baxter and Shell Knob. Good Luck

Here's one for ya. I just love this stuff. Spoke to an employee of AmerenUS this afternoon. Some quick dock facts for ya. If you are lapsed on your permits or your dock does not meet criteria of AmerenUS as far as structural soundness and encapulation, even though you bought and paid for the dock, it is not yours. PERIOD. AmerianUS has the legal ability to take the dock and its contense and remove it from the lake. They also have the power to keep your boat or what ever is attached to the unapproved or un-licensed dock. They may also charge you a removal fee. Starting in 2009, they will start to enforce this, They are saying that there are 25,000 to 30,000 unapproved docks on the lake at this time. You heard me right. With 58,000 acres and what we thought used to be 1550 miles of shoreline, now proved by GPS to be 1750 there are 98,000 approved private docks, not counting multi-family or commercial or sub-division, or resort docks. Add the 30,000 of unapproved and my guy told me about 200,000 slips. Of that they have no idea who or whom ever ownes over 15,000 of these properties. Thru death and time they are just there and no record of ownership is available. Some of the houses conected with the docks has not had occupants in years and the taxes on some have lapsed. What a mess. From Coffman Bend to Warsaw there has been just about zero enforcement of dock regulations, and it shows with some of these docks sunken and thousands being non-permited and in very poor disrepair. Not to mention the hundreds of fishing piers and still to this day docks with barrels under them in the Ivey Bend area. AmerenUS, has no interest of enforcing any type of a trespass rule as far as private docks, are concerned. And they feel they own the 25 to 30 thousand that have failed to lic. properly. Also another tidbit. On multi slip docks that are not posted every slip owner would have to file a complaint against a person fishing on the dock without permission. If you have a 20 slip dock and one slip owner says no, I won't proscute a guy for crappie fishing the case would be thrown out. If you are fishing a posted dock and it goes the entire route, and you are proscuted in Camden County this is a class B misdemener. ie Traffic ticket. Max $125.00 plus court cost. From what I understand, you would have to have not only the dock owner swear out a warrant, but have a law enforcement official see you on the dock. None of this makes it right, to fish these docks, but the likelyhood of being prosecuted for crappie fishing a dock especially from the 70 mile mark to Warsaw is just about the odds of winning the lottery, 23 million to one. And for cripes sakes who cares anyway. Wrench, if your deal was in Camden County, you would have had a gripe. Is Gravois creek in Camden or Morgan? Don't know the Morgan regs. Just cause you get a ticket, does not mean you are wrong. Thats why we have a judicial system. From what I know now, if it was Camden County and you would have pleaded your case according to statute, it would have been dropped. Wish I could have gotten to this earlier and saved you a few bucks. I know at one time in Morgan County about 70 percent of the MDC cases were dropped just by the defendant appearing at the trial. MDC loves you to just mail in a fine. If you take it to court, they do not have a very good record of conviction. I find this very sad. Mostly because there is quite a bit of crap being written to try and justify themselves instead of what is truely just and right. That's another topic, and we won't go there. Am not condoning any type of trespass. The attorney also told me trespass is used by lawenforcement as a plea bargain tool. It is usually in conjuction with several other charges. Usually battiery, vandelism, theft. That makes for charges with the most minor being trespass. This is usually what is pleaded down to, and the others are dropped. Most common trespass is wife abuse. Or a conjunction and restrainging order to keep away or stay off the property. With the actors recieving verbal and written orders to stay away. Next most common instance is theft. The last being trespass during hunting seasons, but there are criteria that has to be met for prosecution, and I stated them in a previous post. I am ready to go onto something new, thats it for me. Thanks all this has been very interesting.

You know, when your wrong, your wrong. Phil and I probably should not have been dock hopping, but being an ole Climax Springs river rat, we do quite a few things the Hoiti-totti group from the other end don't do. Pretty much when you hit the mouth of the Niangua, take a right and head up the Osage on up to Warsaw thru Edwards and Climax, we are not so concerned about fishing off any dock we want in the Winter. Most folks open their cabins in May,and close them in Sept. The rest of the year, is for the locals. Wrench is right as rain however it would be better not to fish others property. Just cause others do it and Ihave done it for years, don't make it right. However, ponder this and I will keep clear of the subject. One of my best fiends is a Banker in Camdenton and his folks own a big spead at Climax Springs with a couple of lake cabins. I was visiting with him this morning and a lawyer friend of his was in his office at the time. The legal eagle called me back a few minutes ago with the Camden County Statutes on Trespass for Camden County. A person COMMITS the crime of trespass when he or she knowlingly enter a building or inhabited structure upon private property reguardless of posting. A person does NOT COMMIT the crime of trespass by entering or remaining on real or private property unless the property is fenced or otherwised enclosed with the intent purpose of excluding the actors from entering said property. Example: Fenced lots, fenced private yards, or fenced farm ground or any locked structure. A person CANNOT be prosecuted for trespass, on unenclosed real or private property, without actual verbal communication to the actors advising them to leave the premises. A person CAN be prosecuted for trespass if the actor refuses to leave private or real property after a verbal communication to do so. A person CAN be prosecuted for trespass without actual communication to the actors if the property is either posted with signage or purple paint in a manner that comes to the immediate attention of the actors, reguardless of enclosure. The way the lawyer read the law is that if the dock is posted and you step on the dock you are commiting trespass. If it is not posted and you have not had a verbal communication from the owner to stay off the dock, it is not trespass, defined by statute. He went on to point out that trespass is the hardest crime to prosecute. About the only way to get a conviction, is for the actors to be apprehended on the property by an officer if they are in sight of a No Trespassing Sign and have the owner of the property present as a witness and willing to swear out a complaint. Read this and interpet as you may. This is Camden county and all the counties are different. On unmarked docks, most covered with coon manure and duck crap, falling in the lake, where its plain no one has been around since Summer, or for that matter for who knows how long, I don't think its wrong to fish them. Just not on video.

Guess we opened up a bucket of minnows, fishing off the docks. I'm a LOZ Lake Rat, born and reared on the 61 mile mark. Have fished the lake since 1962 and was a Water Patrol Officer up there from 1978 to 1983. I was on the water over 1,500 days and never had a complaint of someone standing on a dock fishing in the Winter being a problem. My folks ran a resort and resturant and marina from 1962 to 1976. Have buddies that still own resorts on the lake and also have friends that guide and fish the lake all the time. Wether its right or wrong they all fish docks and have since the lake was filled. Spoke to several guys today after I saw where the thread was going, these are guides, resort owners, and one WP Officer, Also my brother, as he lives up there. When I asked the WP about walking the docks and getting thrown in the slam, he laughed his a$$ off. He said come on, give us some credit. Who in the blank cares about standing on a empty dock fishing a stall for crappie? For cripes sakes this is December. If anyone is a big enough jerk to want someone arrested for standing on their dock they should make a citizens arrest. Again he laughed and asked me how things were going. I asked if he had heard of fishermen being arrested last year for standing on docks, and he had heard nothing of this. Have not checked the records in Camden, Benton, or Morgan County. It would be public record of people arrested for fishing on docks, and would be easy to find. Someone always has to make a big deal out of everything. If it bothers you don't do it. If the dock is posted don't do it. One of the guides I talked to said he walks docks 100 plus days a year, and has done so for 30 years and has never had a problem, other than being asked to leave. He said maybe 5 times in 30 years. Said he could't remember the last time he got chased off a dock. I have walked docks since 1962 and have never been asked to leave. Mind you not so much in the last 15 years, cause I'm here. One of my good buddies runs a bed and breakfast and has walked the docks in November thru April, since the lake was filled and he said he has never been asked to leave. I am talking 1000's of days. It is frankly not a big deal. On any day of the week on LO you will see fisherman walking docks, it has always been this way right or wrong, and from the way the boys are telling it up there that is the way it is going to stay. Sorry to have offended so many, catching a few crappie. PS, They sure were tasty.

65 South to 86 west 6.6 miles to hwy UU. Right on UU 1.5 to old 86 park. I did see the park ranger go by yesterday, and this is a pay for play park. If you don't have a current corps sticker on your mirror, you better put some cash in the pay box and get a sticker, or you will for sure get a ticket on Sunday. They have really taken this serious this year, and will not hesitate to get ya. This park has been closed all year, but it is ready to go now. Good luck on your derby.

George retired. Have not seen him in there the last several times I've been there. His son Scott I believe is running the business now. You might be able to get an answer to your problems, over the phone. But, with all you have going on a rerig is prob. the answer. I got a nex 37C this Spring, and had them completely rewire my boat from stim-to-stern and it has been flawless. They are boat wiring experts, which has a ton to do with the operation of your electronics. You would have to call anyway to make an appointment, pretty good thought. You won't be sorry if you have them fix it, The unit will be correct.

Take the boat and units into Marina Repair Center in Springfield Mo. They are the Largest Factory Service Center for Lowrance in the Midwest. They also are the New Factory Service center for Hummingbird. They will have your units fixed in a flash, no pun intended and you will be ready to go. If you decide to replace the unit. They have Hummingbird or Lowrance new units to choise from. There price on new units is usually a bit higer than BP but all their units are current will all updates. BP units may be up to a year old before they are sold and for the most part anything you buy there you are taking your life in your own hands. You have seen what happens with repairs and complaints. Good Luck

Cannot find any pictures of AFF boats on the web. Can find their fiberglass repair business in Mountain Home, but nothing more. Don't happen to have any pic's do ya? Got the length, but what about the width of that 21 footer. Guess I have lots of questions. Also is it where a guy can see it? Going out of town for a couple of days, but when I get back, I would love to take a peek. Keep us posted. Thanks Bill