ness

peegee12, Nice to have you in the discussion -- both for your unique perspective as a former CA and your reasonable approach to effecting change. Everyone wants to blame and complain, and we seem to overlook the paths that exist for taking action. Increasing awareness, a little at a time if need be, seems to me to be the best and most realistic course of action to start with. There are open meetings, Game Thief hotline, forums like this, the Conservationist (Ask the Ombudsman), SMAs, our Post Dispatch friend, MSA and a precedent for limiting gigging in certain trout waters. We're not starting from scratch -- it's just a matter of actually doing something. Newton's first law, and all that.

I used Sally Hansen's on my last batch of hard foam poppers. It was sure easy to use and just the right consistency -- thin enough that it spreads out nicely, but not so thin that it wants to sag. It's easy to find too, but I feel like I need to do some explaining when I buy the stuff. Time will tell how durable it is.

Good thoughts there Forsythian. You know, it'd be one thing if Brian made a habit of selling questionably obtained stuff, undercutting the local fly shops at every turn, and flooding the forum with advertisements. But, as far as I can tell, this is a onesy. Frankly, I'm kinda surprised anyone really gives a rat's arse. Hey Brian -- do you still have those Winston WTs on sale for $75?

I think it was a Pisces maximus

No worries, man. I just didn't want to get another 'trophy' or 'fly/spin/bait' argument going. Seems like we've covered that plenty.

You're sure reading a lot into what I said. Records don't matter to me, neither does the fact it was caught on live bait. That's not an endorsement of fly fishing or a dig on bait. I just don't give a rip what others are using, and I'm not out looking to catch trophies. Make sense now?

It doesn't matter one leetle bit to me. Records? Tackle? Who cares? It really doesn't even enter my thinking until someone else brings it up.

OK -- the slacker has completed his flies, and he (I) will mail them tomorrow. Sorry for the hold up.

Chief, you make very valid points about getting off our arses and actually doing something about it. Fact is, though, most people just don't have the time or inclination to tackle something like this. Count me among them. We've got an ally in the SMA though. These guys have started the process, have meetings, inform through their web site, etc. Unless anyone feels like starting something from scratch, that just may be a good place to start, no? But the tone of previous threads was to complain about them -- not jump in and help. From an earlier post, I took it that SMA is aware of the problem, but doesn't consider it a major problem. Which, really, is in keeping with the initial premise -- that this is maybe a localized thing. Al was referring to a pretty specific problem and place, if I remember correctly. All the other nonsense about carrying guns, confronting poachers, banning gigging is just that -- nonsense.

Usually? You wanna play tough guy, feel free. Me -- I'll let the guys who get paid to confront law breakers do the confronting. Let's not let this spin off into a politics or gun rights debate either. The original premise of the discussion, and the opinion of the overwhelming majority of people who have posted, is that gigging is legal and gonna stay that way. The problem lies with the bad apples that don't give a rat's arse what the law says, or can't see past the end of the day, THEIR day, when they're out having a good time.

Doh! Thanks for the link.

Any reason not to share the Agent names, e-mail addresses and numbers? They're on the web, right? I'd put those in my phone today if I had them. Lotsa folks have e-mail on their phones, but did you guys know you can text to an e-mail address? If you've got the capabilities, you could attach a picture too. That'd be a pretty effective way to communicate a violation, no?

It's open and Tom, Lisa and Travis are running things for the bank.

It's called Westover Farms right now. Here's a number I've got for Travis -- their Sporting Clays guy -- (573) 743-6284 Westover Farms

I don't see senior in any of the pics, and the group looks smaller than normal...

Coupla good posts right there, Kathy and Dan. As much as we've hashed and re-hashed the enforcement issue, it bears repeating: if you see something, call it in and document it as best you can. Most cell phones take pictures, if you're not carrying a camera. People, boats, cars, license numbers, dead fish all help inform. Kathy: good idea to post them on the forum here too. Dan -- thanks for carrying the torch. I'm sure folks here would love to get an update on MSAs efforts in this area.

Wow! Who's that guy and how do we get him interested in this whole thing?

It's interesting to see how this conversation has devolved into personal attacks, political tirades, tackle bashing, etc. All counterproductive, in my opinion. Al makes two main points: giggers kill gamefish and it's impossible to police. Seems to me that cutting out all the other nonsense and focusing on these two things just might lead us to some ideas to improve the situation. One of my favorite sayings is 'If you want to cook an elephant, first you cut it into little pieces'. In my experience, it's not a widely-known or well-publicized problem. So, that's a decent place to start, no? We've got several assets at our disposal: this forum; MSA; Conservationist; our St. Louis Post friend. I have no doubt that it's difficult to police, but I'd need more convincing to believe it's impossible. It seems to me CAs have access to jet boats and lights, and might just be able to check creels on the water, or at least at some of the take outs. As was mentioned above, a bust or two, especially if widely publicized, could serve as a wake-up call to those who feel they're unlikely to get caught, and a deterrent to all. I wonder what the CAs would say about that? There's a precedent for restricting gigging on Blue Ribbon trout waters. How did we get there? Just some thoughts that, hopefully, may help steer this in a more constructive direction.

Still working on mine. I expect to mail them mid-week.

Saw the story on PBS a couple years ago. Really good stuff. You might be able to find some info through their site at pbs.org

I wonder how much of the stuff they do is 'because that's the way we've always done it' and how important it really is compared to some of the other things they could be working on. My tummy tells me they've got some latitude in what they do, when they do it and where they go. PR? Kill two birds with one stone and do a little PR and write tickets at the same time. I'd wouldn't write them off 9/1 to 1/15, just because it's hunting season. Gawd forbid somebody kills a deer without a tag.

I think the situation could be improved with the agents they already have. Sure, I'd love to have more agents out there scaring people straight, but it seems to me a little cage-rattling could get them to focus on areas where we see the problems. Does anybody know what kinda hours CAs work? I would think that if they put in 40-hour weeks they could cover an awful lot of ground. I'm certain I could hit every major stream access in a county multiple times in a week. And, they could do a lot of good just parking at a popular access for one Saturday a month checking licenses and creels all day. Hit another one the next Saturday. Word will get out and people will be more likely to follow the rules. Hell, just parking a truck at the access would do some good. I've never thought the hiding in the bushes technique sounded very effective. I fished the 11 Point last fall, and was stunned by the fact I could call home from a 1-lane gravel road just up from the stream. Same old phone, same old service (Verizon). Maybe they're covering more areas or maybe I was lucky. Any way, it's worth a shot. I firmly believe the best things people like us can do are report what we see, and better yet, get a dialog going with the local CAs, express our concerns and try to convince them to pay a little more attention the the problems we see.

Ran into this article in the NY Times of all places. Has a nice photo essay on trout fishing in Iowa's 'Driftless Area'. Always looks like such a pretty area; there's a ton of streams up there and pretty easy access I believe. Iowa

I'm hoping my tendency for procrastination will be reduced by my declaring, publicly, in this forum, that I will begin work on my flies.....soon. Snowed in at the moment.

Good points there. Any time you have an 'opening day' you're insuring that it will be popular. For whatever that's worth.