ozark trout fisher

Not a great opening weekend by most standards, but it's not terrible. A&M/South Carolina tonight should be very onesided. No Manziel, and that Aggie run defense against Mike Davis......Spurrier has already started laughing maniacally. As for the MU/Arky rivalry.....it's not that yet, not in football anyway (basketball's a different story.) It may become one, but for now it's just game #12 for both teams. Mizzou has the perfect schedule for making a bowl game. They will be heavily favored in 6 games (SDSU, @ Toledo, Indiana, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, and Arkansas) and a slight favorite in 2 more (UCF and Tennessee.) I also think A&M will be really beatable, though I think Mizzou is actually an early underdog. But to win the east again they're gonna have to survive @USC, UGA, and @UF back to back to back. Winning 2 of 3 is a tall order and might not even be enough. Realistically, they face a strong possibility of starting 0-3 in conference even if they play at a top 25 level. They could still recover and finish 8-4 or 9-3 in that case, but they would be stuck at 3-4th in the division.

If it were just 7-8 hrs 1 Saturday of the year it's one thing. But this is just a more exaggerrated version of what's going on 7-8 hrs a day every weekend during the summer, and Sundays. It's just that you rarely see the debauchery so well advertised/ celebrated and it kind of got people's attention. But this general behavior is an every weekend occurence, this is just on a slightly larger scale. Instead of just complaining, as far as I can tell I'm the only one who's offered any suggestions to help reduce these types of issues. The idea of widespread river permit systems would be about as popular as banning alcohol in party cove (and probably harder to implement), but ultimately it's what I think we need. It's not going to happen on a broad scale (though I do think it will eventually in ONSR, and perhaps the 11 pt) but for our high-traffic streams I do think it's the best solution.

Not sure how I insulted you but okay. Edit: I see what you're talking about, and I do think you completely misread my post. I was just saying, don't make an excuse for those who do stupid stuff on the river just because they're "young". Because there are plenty of younger people who don't act that way. No problem with the Royals. The Jayhawks are another story but at least you didn't say anything about being a Chief's fan. So there's a bit of hope for you there.

I utilize the exact same strategy....wherever the canoe rentals leave off is where I go. I don't know how much it effects the fish (to be fair, most party floaters are incapable of catching a longear sunfish, let alone a smallmouth bass) but they sure do ruin everything else. Canoe rentals are hit and miss in terms of whether they have any sense of ethics or not. There are clearly disgraces like the place that is running the Bullcrap Float though, and plenty of others that legitimately love the river and care about it. But bottom line is most would not ever consider turning a potential floater down for any other reason than the river is flooded or they're out of canoes. Even those with the best of intentions are never going to look at the river and say, there's already enough canoes on it, sorry you're gonna have to come back tomorrow. It's a business, and it's one that hurts those of us who don't either make money off it or utililize them. Not that I ever want canoe rentals to go away, but at a certain point some compromises will need to be made so they don't have full ability to ruin the rivers for everybody else three months out of the year. A permit system might just be that answer, at least on some rivers. But I am of the opinion that the current state of affairs is untenable for anyone that loves our rivers as anything more than a conveyer belt for a portable party sled.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this approach. There is probably no legal basis for stopping the event but you can certainly make a bucketload off fines/tickets and at least make folks have a second thought before throwing their beer can on the gravel bar (or doing something a lot worse.) As to the comment by someone else that "anyone could have fun in that environment" (or something along those lines).....no, just no.

Young doesn't equal beyond stupid/drunk/behaving illegally. I am tired of the "kids will be kids" narrative. I'm one of those dreaded "college age" people and I don't act like that, and furthermore have no desire to. You either are a self-absorbed jerk or you aren't, at whatever age you may be. End of story.

Yeah, that part was actually pretty annoying if I were to be honest. You wanted to take it slow and fish the end of whatever hatch was going on but you have to paddle like hell to get off by 6 PM. That was weird.

I see we double posted at the same time. I do agree that it would spread out river traffic more....but rivers like the Current and Jacks are too valuable to see their current treatment continue. I don't think this is viable on the Meramec, North Fork, or the other rivers that aren't one way or another federally controlled. And the Eleven Point is but probably doesn't need it at this point.

The difference is that you're talking about permits for outfitters in those references. In the type of system I'm talking about, everyone needs a permit, private boats or otherwise and there's a hard cap. They are also so cheap that cost isn't an issue for anyone. Here's the link you requested (this is for the Pine and Pere Marquette in Michigan but it works the same in several other National Scenic rivers in the area.

How this all relates to the economic principal of socialism is a bit unclear...perhaps you could expound on that. But as mentioned, permit systems work very well many states/river systems across the country. It's very widespread, so it's not like we're talking about something that a lot of people don't already deal with. Let me tell you, plenty of people enjoy (and make money off) rivers like the AuSable, Pine, Pere Marquette, etc. The permit systems there are generous, so it's not like you're waiting two months to get a slot. Most times (during the week, anyway), it's just a matter of driving up to to the ranger station and picking the thing up the morning of your float. It just puts a cap on the number of people that would prevent situations like the "Bull Float" and other such desecrations of our rivers. Would it work here? Probably not on a large scale. But the Ozark National Scenic Riverways practically beg for this to be implemented. They clearly are being overused by any reasonable standard, the water quality has been documented to have been diminished at least in the summer months, and they are already under national control. It's a situation similar to many rivers in other states where permit systems have created really nice environments for users that actually respect the resource. Not just fisherman, but also recreational floaters, bird watchers, anyone who wants to have a chance to see wildlife that would otherwise be scared away by a boom-box or constant screaming. Ever seen a blue-heron within sight of a gaggle of 35 drunken, loud canoeists? Yeah, me neither.

If it's inevitable, then the question is, why is this problem so much worse in S. Missouri/N Arkansas than almost anywhere else in the country? There are possibilities (such as permit systems) to be explored, it's just that everyone is afraid to go there.

This is a system that works well on many rivers across the country. It's widely implemented on many of the better rivers in the state of Michigan, for example. Guess what, those rivers are beautiful, don't have litter on the gravel bars and you can float without floatillas of screaming drunk people everywhere. It's a revelation if you ever go there. We could have that. The simple solution is to plan ahead, whether you're a local or not. If it works in other localities it can work here. There would be ample pushback from locals without a doubt, but that doesn't mean it isn't a viable idea. And there is certainly the possibility of environmental damage, especially water quality issues, from such large crowds. That has been well documented.

I'm not sure how that effects the larger point. But yes, I have seen a number of people in that unfortunate state on our Ozark streams. It's rarely pleasant.

Within the confines of what is legal behavior, there's not much that can be done. But here's the thing: VERY much of what is going on in our Ozark streams is, out and out illegal. Public indecency, public urination, anything along that lines that is induced by a ton of alcohol and zero inhibition. Let me tell you something: I am at an SEC school every fall Saturday, and the atmosphere is as tame as a book club meeting here compared to the debauchery that goes on in plain site on our Ozark streams. It's one thing if stuff is going on behind closed doors but when it's out in the open, on a public water and ILLEGAL then we need to put a stop to it. I'm not talking about underrage drinking or someone smoking a joint. Big deal. I'm talking about the folks I see floating down/swimming the river bare butt naked and those throwing their empty beer cans on the river. The ones that try to intimidate us when I am floating down the river with a buddy of mine who happens to be African American. That's the kind of stuff I hate, that's illegal, and that desecrates our public resource. Don't try to write it off as the will of the majority. The majority of people aren't like that in any normal setting. They'd get arrested, and rightfully so. Being respectful of public property and the people around you is something that doesn't go away just because you are on a river.

Let's be honest, the real party at blame here is the outfitter putting them on the river. That river is what they live off of, and clearly, they don't respect it enough to pass up a payday in order to avoid single-handedly turning the stream they rely on into party cove. Next time I want a shuttle on the Meramec, I can sure say I won't be using Ozark Outdoors. Not ever.

The problem is that they are hosting a massive redneck convention on a public waterway that others have the right to be able to use. Clearly, the DNR doesn't anticipate that being safely possible, at least for "families". So yeah, this is a definite case of "your rights end where mine begin."

Better test the water quality after all this is over. These folks are not going to worry about anything, least of all where they should go to the bathroom, and swimming at party cove the Meramec River might not even be safe. I'm sure they'll all bring along bags to pick up their empty beer cans and leave the river better than they found it though.

This is basically saying, let's give the people in the "Bull Float" a free pass to do whatever the heck they want, because we know they'll be too drunk/ignorant/stupid to control their own actions, and anyway, it's too much of a hassle to put a stop to it. So let's just allow that to go on and punish everyone else instead. Because it totally makes sense to allow a public resource to be the site of an event that makes it unsafe for "regular" families to enjoy it.

Feel bad for Bradford. That said, the Rams need to move on at QB. He's only average-slightly above average when healthy, and he's almost never healthy. I wouldn't waste assets on trading for Mark Sanchez or Christian Ponder as some have speculated, though. They are still good enough to get to around .500 based on the rest of the roster, even without a real QB. They aren't making the playoffs in that division this season anyway, so there's no reason for a desperation move. Honestly, I don't know how many wins this injury costs the Rams. Maybe 1-2, but perhaps not even that. They should just wait a draft and new QB next spring and find some other desperate team willing to trade for Bradford when he gets healthy.

Yep, that's the beauty of the western United States as currently configured, and if these folks get their way, a large part of that goes by the wayside. Having just spent time on the west slope of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado, the sense of the "wide open spaces" out there is something that you just can't grasp if you don't spend time in that part of the world. If no trespassing signs and (much more terrifying) upscale housing developments start popping up in some of those BLM or NF areas, that's going to change. And it will be a tragedy.

Sounds like you must have been way down low, given the carp and jets. I don't fish below Union ever, as that seems to be the lower limit of the decent smallie fishing. Where I fish you won't encounter either of those two pestilences at least in any appreciable numbers.....though who knows, the asian carp may show up there eventually (I hope not!) The area from Noser Mill down to the 50 bridge in Union is what I consider the middle river and the stretch I fish almost exclusively. There is some nice, secluded water in there, but access is spread out and that's the challenge. Also lots of tiny spotted bass for every smallie or bucketmouth. It's not for everyone. The upper river around Tea/Mill Rock/Wenkel Ford is also nice for early season floating/wade fishing too.

I caught a largemouth that looked just like that on the Bourbeuse River a few days ago. Fattest I'd ever caught outside of the pre-spawn period when they are carrying eggs. It was a 17 incher that had to weigh more than some 20"+ fish that I've caught. At least in eastern MO the fish have seemed really healthy......good water conditions have let them really fatten up.

That's one heckuva fish. Congrats!

I'm glad you finally caught a good one! That will keep you going for awhile. Trust me, I know what you're saying. What you describe is what I experienced when I started fly fishing.Getting skunked trip after trip, until I was at the end of my wits. It's hard to stay positive at times but anyway it sounds like you're making progress so that's good.

Planning to float/fish from Eminence to Two Rivers next weekend (not Labor Day weekend, mind you but the one after.) Been years since I've been on that stretch. Anyone floated it lately and have a fishing report?