Walcrabass

MoPanfisher, The reason that TR seems to be a great place for the Kentuckies ( and Smallies ) is because we keep PUTTING THEM BACK TO BREED MORE !!! If you will go through some of the past posts you will find info that tells that our Kentuckies DEFINITELY are not the same as those in the South for example. The difference??? Ours don't weigh 7 pounds !!!! As far as people not keeping them to eat...... it is because the CAN'T !!!! THEY ARE TOO SMALL FOR THE REGULATIONS WE NOW HAVE !!!! The fishermen I have spoken to would GLADLY EAT THEM, IF THEY COULD !!! Concerning the population dynamics....... the Kentuckies have went from 3% of the bass population when the lake was first filled to about 28% and that does not count the crossbreeds. Why??? WE KEEP PUTTING THEM BACK TO BREED !!!! if a farmer kept all of his red calves and sold, butchered, all of his white calves don't you think that in 30 years he would have a greater percentage of RED CATTLE???? The fact of the matter is that the Kentuckies breed at even less than this 12" we keep talking about. But 12" is far better than 15" ( because the vast majority of them DIE before they ever get there. Wow... an entire life of breeding and filling the lake with offspring and virtually no chance of ever being removed from the waters.) Our state does raise some Bass. In fact I have known of them to release their old breeders for the kids to catch at certain events. We just don't have a program to genetically improve their size like some other states. We are behind guys. We are being backwards. We are being dumb. We are being greedy where the money is concerned. Do your part to bring the Missouri Bass to a new ( actually an old ) level and beyond. Call and write your Conservation people. Tell the people taking surveys on these Kentuckies to help us control them with better regulations. AND when you do catch one that is legal..... have a fish fry !!!! Walcrabass

Smithville Steve and others, Why is Missouri so slow to change??? Part of it is because of as a state we couldn't even make up our mind if we were for the North or the South. Just seems to be that mentality of people in this area. Part of it ( well OK almost all of it ) MONEY !!! Money that the guides on lakes like Table Rock receive from their clients for "catching fish". If you want to call it "catching fish" when almost everything you catch is 14.75" and less in length. Not much of a thrill in my book. Money that spurs many of our tournament anglers to fish. I can honestly say that if a tournament was held where your entry fee was just enough to cover dinner after the tournament for all the anglers that there would not be much of a turn out by this group. They want every POSSIBLE CHANCE to catch a keeper ......even if it means ruining the overall genetics and general population of the fish in the lake. Just as long as their stringer is the biggest everything is going well. Even if the STRINGER SIZE IN GENERAL IS DWINGLING !!! Also the money required to institute new programs like a "Lunker Program". After all we have a huge amount of retirement money to pay to the employees that work for different organizations in this state. Gotta make sure all that is taken care of first you know. Kind of weird that in this day and age where so many tax payers have no retirement program furnished to them by their employers that their TAX DOLLARS can support OTHER PEOPLES RETIREMENT !!. And last but not least............................. MONEY!!!! OK, are we clear as to my stance on this problem??? Wall-concerned for the fish- but not in charge of their well being- or the finances to help them-crabass P.S. Just want everyone reading this that I have spoken to many, many anglers about this growing problem and without hesitation ALL OF THEM that are not guides or tournament fisherman believe that we need to do something about the Kentuckies in Missouri Lakes.

To ALL REAL BASS FISHERMEN ( WOMEN AND CHILDREN TOO), I am in awe !!!!! For all the times myself and Straw Hat have been trying to give SCIENTIFIC information on these fish....... and for the contributions of others that are knowledgable on the subject........ WOOHOOOOOO !!!!!!! We are finally getting somewhere with this "little fish called Kentucky". I am hoping that EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT READS THIS SITE WILL CONTACT THEIR MISSOURI CONSERVATION BIOLOGIST FOR THE LAKE THEY FISH !!!! Let them know you are sick and tired of watching virtually every other "Bass State" do what is right with their bass population while watching ours go downhill. EAT THE KENTUCKIES !!!!! PUT THEM IN THEIR OWN CATEGORY !!!!! Start a "Lunker Program". Start stocking bigger strains of Bass in our lakes. Don't even try to tell me that there is not other larger Strains of Bass that can live here !!!!! Remember when "Armidillos will never be in Missouri because we are too far North???? Get it done !!!! Quit messing around !!!!! OK, for the moment.... I am finished Wall (Missouri Bass Promoter) crabass

Hammertime, I too wish we had a "Lunker Program", and a hybrid Florida/California/whatever that gets bigger strain stocking program like some of our neighboring states. However, in a state that doesn't even worry about the Kentuckies crossbreeding and their small size taking over the lakes what would be the use? Look back to the days when lakes like Table Rock were giving up 10+ pound fish regularly........ I am very glad for the people that catch those 10 pounders today............. just wish they were not such a small number of anglers. Where Bass fishing is concerned..... Missouri needs to grow up and put on their "big boy pants". Walcrabass

Waterdog MP and others, Wondering how big they get in Stockton??? I can tell you from personal experience " over 27". Caught it at night too. Wally

The reason fish don't bite is the same reason we don't feel like eating........ tummy ache. Whatever makes the stomach upset makes the appetite go away. With fish this is first and foremost their air bladder. Imagine having a balloon in your body right by your stomach and having it over-inflate or suddenly under-inflate. It would be kind of like getting punched in the stomach. This is what I feel happens with pressure changes in the atmosphere where fish are concerned. Thus when cold or storm fronts are coming in it is easy to see why it knocks them off for awhile. Just my opinion. No scientific manuals or paragraphs to quote. Have a good laugh if you want...... Walcrabass

For those of you that would be fortunate enough to be able to fish next Tuesday/Wednesday I would advise you to try it. The Dogwood in my backyard is beginning to bloom and the weather forecast shows warming through the weekend and into next week. It looked like the nights were going to hold in the upper 40's and lower 50's. This will spread magic fairy dust on the fish like you cannot believe!!! My predictions are: 1. Full Stringers of several species. 2. Hot Grease. 3. More food pictures on this website. Wally

Somehow we went from taking pictures of fish to taking pictures of food. Hard for me to decide which ones I like to look at the most !!!! At any rate it was a great Easter. I have always felt that fish were a "religious" food as it reminds me of the 5,000. Maybe that is why I am so religious about fishing??? Just wanted to share something from my Grandmother that has long ago passed on. When ever anyone would say something about having to do the dishes after we had a family dinner she would say " Doing dishes is a blessing..... it means you had something to eat. Sometimes we forget just how lucky we are and just need to be humbled a little bit. Happy Easter to All, Walcrabass

Cold then Warm then Sunshine then Clouds then Rain the Sun again then more cold then rain again........ you know ...... like every year when you are wanting to go fishing. Oh Yeah, this one is for the Bass Nuts. Being CAUGHT when on the nest and the released UNHARMED !!!!! Can be a really good way to make one NOT spawn!!!! Just wanted to get that in there..... sorry for those I offended...... Wallyman

Just one other thing guys. Fish can "Make" and " Absorb" their eggs many times before letting them go. Walcrabass

OK Guys, here is some info from the old man Wally. Fish spawn do to several different reasons. Believe it or not diet has a lot to do with it. If a particular fish holed up in a spot in the lake for the winter that was a little bit deeper and a little bit colder then being cold blooded creatures that fish may not get a start on the "Spawn Mode" as quickly as another fish that holed up in a warmer spot. Along the same thoughts is the presence of food. Some places just have more bait than others. Along with all this is whether they are in a place that has a big influx of water every time it rains. As we all know it can turn them on or shut them down due to the amount and temperature of the rain. Another point of interest is that fish can "Taste" the water. In other words they have an idea what is going on by following a scent trail in the water. It is this fact that lets the Salmon know which creek or river they were spawned in so they can return to the same place to spawn themselves. What all this boils down to is simply what was told to me by a friend that is long gone. A person that spent his life hunting and fishing before graphs, GPS, Down imaging, etc. A person that spent each day of his life watching livestock and wildlife too. His words were true and had great insight. "All the fish don't go to the bank to spawn on the same day and at the same time." He would always follow with something like " It just depends on what is going on". So the thing to do is watch the weather, check the lake temp in different areas or even pockets, figure when the last rain fell and what water clarity you are dealing with, think about the type of spawning area the fish you are targeting needs, AND watch the cows when you are heading to the lake. One other thing..... it doesn't hurt to see them tearing up the water on the surface either !!!! Wallenheimer

Bassfisher, Thank you for an honest and detailed report. I know many people will profit from your information in the coming weeks. I wanted to put in my two cents worth concerning the Big Whites. I found out by accident many years ago while I was Bass fishing with Spinnerbaits that I could catch really big ones with them. Since then when I target Whites I throw 1/4 or 3/8 oz. Spinner Baits with White, White and Chartreuse skirts and Silver or Silver and Gold Willow leaf blades on them. I use a trailer hook and a matching split tail trailer too. If I get sucking bites and I am missing fish I slim down to a regular spinner like a BIG Rooster tail etc. This keeps a lot of the smaller fish from biting and gives me more time to work on the ones I want while they are in a surface busting frenzy. Keep up the good work and keep on posting. It was very much enjoyed. Walcrabass

I personally would like some input from the very highly respected and intelligent on "fish matters" Straw Hat. Please give us the straight of it on the "Tiger Muskies" that were at one time stocked in Stockton Lake. If you know why it was stopped give us that info also. If the Lake Biologist would like to give comment on this as well I would appreciate it. Wally

Mopanfisher, Very glad to see you caught some Walleye for dinner. They really are delicious !!!! I truly hope you set the hook hard enough on the Kentucky to cause it to have a fatal Heart attack. As you probably know at 12" it has probably spawned at least 3 times spreading it's "little" genes all over the lake. Wally

I am not 100% sure but 99% sure that I got the 6 to 7 year thing from the biologist for Table Rock Lake. Wally

To All, Sounds like we are all pretty much "In the Ballpark" with the info we are writing here on this post. The average life expectancy for a Spot is SIX to 7 years. The SIX part comes pretty darn close to hitting the 15" mark around six months or so before death. I am pretty sure that the Dept. doesn't mean that at 5 years and one day of age that the majority of the Kentuckies will be 15" or longer. More like " in their 5th year they CAN reach 15" ( and I am thinking they would be one of the lucky ones) The difference is that the Largemouth lives to an average of around 16 years. Just a better fish in the long run ( pun intended) Wallenheimer

I have been told by a biologist that they "might" make the 15" size in Table Rock in the last 6 months of their lives. As far as the Stun Gun goes...... I did not know that they could elude it that well. Guess that is why they don't bring Orca to the top very often. Just kidding.... that is very interesting. Wally

dtrs5keepers, As far as the "plenty of 15" spots in Table Rock" ..... there are records that you can obtain from Missouri Dept. of Conservation that show how many, what kind, and how long the bass were found to be in their Electro-fishing studies from year to year. When I review these studies it is my humble opinion that there are NOT plenty. Some, yes, plenty, no. You may have nailed it in that last bit. Guide Services and Tournament guys really want every available fish ( expecially aggressive Kentuckies) in the lake. It gives their clients something to catch. It gives them a chance to get another fish in the live well for weigh in. As far as Stockton goes..... if their are plenty of Kentuckies over 15" in that lake I don't have the ability to catch them. I have caught very few truly ( that is measured ) over 15". If there are that many in the lake then we have already waited too long for this regulation. Happy Feet, Walcrabass

To All, No I am not a MDC plant. Yes I believe a percentage of the anglers have a learning curve to face with identification. Same for the Smallmouth. Yes I believe the spots can, and will, and will have no trouble reaching 12" in Truman. It is after that 12" point that I see as the problem. As far as them getting three or four inches longer than 15" with our gene pool of spots here in Missouri....... nope !!!! Personally I would have liked to see the length set at 10 or 11 inches but the Department has some reserve with the average angler being able to distinguish them from other bass at this length. I could not be happier for this regulation change and hope it continues with all the lakes in Missouri. Virtually all of my fishing buddies from Stockton and Table Rock that have good knowledge of these fish see things the same way. Maybe I just run around with a weird group of guys?????? Happy Feet, Walcrabass

Chief Gray Bear, Like I said in my reply to Fishinwrench..... I don't look for this to reduce the population in the lake by any large amount....neither does the Department of Conservation I am sure as you said. HOWEVER........ when you have a fish in the lake that basically NEVER reaches a length where it can be legally removed..... and it continues to spawn.... then the percentage of this fish in the lake WILL INCREASE. THAT IS HOW THEY GOT TO THE 33% LEVEL THEY ARE AT NOW !!!!!! Remember that when Table Rock was formed they percentage of Kentuckies was around 3.( I have read this somewhere in the past... wish I could dig it up ) Multiply that times 10 or 11 and you will have the percentage of them in the lake now after 50 + years of what I consider to be "incorrect regulations" concerning this particular fish. Just my "old school math concerning math, fish, and animals". Walcrabass

Fishinwrench, I could not agree with you more !!!!! If you REALLY wanted to reduce the number of fish in a lake ( like the Kentuckies) then remove the length limit and the possession both. I am told this has been done in some places ( Oklahoma with some lakes and the Kentuckies) and definitely gets the job done. I feel they are instituting this regulation in this manner to curb the "growing population" but at the same time try to please the tournament anglers and guides. Maybe some other people too. Where the food is concerned I agree with your angle of thought too except that in a particular system I see 2 different kinds of food. Size and readily available.I have said for years that a huge portion of the Shad are wasted because we don't have a large enough number of big fish in the lake to take advantage of the bigger dinner. Where the tournament stuff is concerned........ I am also in agreement. Way too many. You are so correct about those who fish for money. That is definitely their driving force NOT fishing!!!! I find it very interesting that you mentioned them being hauled across the lake as I have never ever liked that either. So many of the fish die after being released. I have been witness to B A S S tournament where just such a thing happened. They were coming to the top after the weigh in. I am sure things have improved since I was a young lad but I have seen info published that set the death rate at 40%. And finally where the income from fishing is concerned. Yup.... the everyday angler WOULD bring in more money than the Bass tournament guys but maybe in the wrong pockets in the eyes of some. After all ...... Mr. average does NOT use $30.00 Jerk Baits, $70,000.00 Bass Boats, bring in millions (?) in TV stuff, etc....... He just takes his family camping, fishing, buys gas, food, some tackle, and if lucky has a decent boat. So I would say all in all you and I are on the same page and have the same feelings in the broad scope of things. Kind of scary...... an old guy thinking like a younger (?) guy and visa versa. Walcrabass P.S. Love your viewpoints !!!!!

Guys, Please give credit to the honest fishermen which I believe is a huge percentage of the fishing people. I think it will help the overall Bass picture in the lake as with the population of Kentuckies at 33% it was not to be long until the Kentuckies would hit 50% or 60% and take a large part of the food that Largemouth could utilize. The Department of Conservation has acted out of necessity because they have the knowledge of what is to come if they don't. There are many more people that keep bass sometimes than a lot of the more proficient Bass Anglers realize. I have been told that on certain lakes with the 15" length limit and high Kentucky numbers that "most of the anglers release all their Bass so lowering the length limit on the Kentuckies would not help." There is a flaw in this technical truth in that for the most part the commom angler doesn't catch many fish measuring 15". With a 12" length on the Kentuckies this group of anglers WOULD keep some of their Bass. I do not look for this regulation change to "turn around the Kentucky population and severely decrease it". It will however keep it from getting increasingly worse and this is exactly why the Department of Conservation has instituted this regulation. I am in praise of this change and I truly believe it is a step in the right direction to return Missouri to being the "kind of Bass legend" it used to be. Walcrabass

YAHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! YOU NEED TO POST THIS ON THE REGULAR FORUM TOO!!!! PRAISE THE LORD FOR THIS ONE !!!! FISHING WILL IMPROVE!!!! WALLY

Allright !!!!, You guys ..... we have the answer........ Build side dikes with a entry gate........ put sex hormones in the water to entice them to spawn........ when they swim in the dike area then close the gate........ throw in some sewage, after all it is cheap and we have been dumping it in all the creeks every time we get a good flood......... then let it dry up ( don't pull the plug or they'll swim out) and we will kill them by the millions !!!!! One more thing...... as it is drying up grab them out by hand and then sell them back to the Chinese as an Asian delicacy !!! Brilliant !!!! Brilliant !!!! Wally Einstein

Yeah, If they could invent a sex hormone that they were attracted to starting at about 1" in length MAYBE we would have a chance of eradicating them. Guess that lets you know where we stand huh?? Der Wallenhiemer