eric1978

There are golden stones in the Niangua. Wrench turned a few over last fall.

Justin, that's the problem...I'm not so sure it was perfectly legal. That's why I said I see both sides, in which case, if it were my ticket, I would just pay it and be done with it. I'm sure it's hard for the OP to see it from someone else's "objective" perspective, since if what he says is true, he KNOWS that he was fishing legally and snagging the paddlefish was an incidental, accidental, and therefore legal bycatch...but no one else can know that for sure, so fighting the ticket would be a real PITA and not worth the time, effort or money, especially considering he has the picture thing he'd have to deal with to boot. I'm not sure which posts you're referencing that makes you think I'd fight a ticket if I thought I was perfectly legal (wouldn't everyone?), but if it's the Shoal Creek thread you're talking about, then that's a false equivalence because the floaters on Shoal Creek were perfectly legal in black and white until the MO Supreme Court changes the precedent. The OP here may have been perfectly legal, but not so obviously legal. Not sure if that makes sense...? But I digress... Anywho, someone earlier mentioned going and speaking with the Prosecuting Attorney and explaining his side of the story. I probably would do that first, since it's possible he may drop the charge. But if that didn't work, it'd be the end of the fight for me. But that's me.

That's actually not the case, Al. We snagged a few with clousers on the fly rods last weekend while fishing for whites. They take off like a freight train and if you have them snagged anywhere near the rear, your 5wt may as well be a piece of cooked spaghetti. Forget about it. Kinda fun, though...for about 5 minutes. I don't know what to think about the ticket...I can see both sides. I'd do what Gavin said and just pay the thing and move on.

I do agree with you Justin, but his problem is not only the question of intent, but the fact that these fish should have been "released unharmed immediately," and the fact that he had them out of the water long enough to take pictures may be a problem for him. I realize guys take pictures of bass they catch out of season (myself included), but it is legal to fish for bass out of season if you catch and release...it's not legal to snag paddlefish out of season. So he's got double trouble to deal with if he fights the ticket. It certainly is a gray area deal, but I think the confrontation could have been avoided if he changed location or kept the fish in the water. Tough call.

I'm not going to say you did or didn't deserve this ticket, nor will I speculate whether or not you should contest it in court. But let me pose another scenario to you and see if it changes your perspective at all... Here in St. Louis, they stock some of our ponds with trout in the winter. Some of the lakes are catch and release only until February. I was fishing one of these ponds in November, when I saw a couple guys start fishing about fifty yards from me. I watched one guy catch a fish while he was talking on his cell phone. He used his rod to drag the fish onto shore, then proceeded to finish his conversation for approximately "3 minutes," all the while the trout flopped around in the gravel and dirt. I later realized these two guys were fishing with Powerbait, which was also illegal on this pond at the time, so as I was leaving I walked over to them and told them they were illegal, and should drive over to one of the catch and keep ponds if they wanted to fish with bait. While I was talking to them I noticed 3 belly-up trout floating within ten feet of them. I'm going to assume at least one of those fish died because of poor (downright negligent) handling techniques, so even if they were fishing with legal flies or other lures, I absolutely believe he would still deserve a ticket since the rules clearly state: All fish must be released unharmed IMMEDIATELY. Just something to think about. Maybe if you had kept the paddlefish in the water and popped the hook out right away, the agent would have given you a pass. Accidents happen, and they know that. But they also know the second a fish is taken out of the water, their chances of survival start rapidly decreasing. 3 minutes is a long time for a fish to be out of the water. I know I can't hold my breath that long.

The thorax looks pretty wicked, mic. I'd try the biots again...they give the best look for stonefly tails, IMO. I'd prolly trim the dubbing down a little, too. A trout would eat that, I reckon.

Not in your river...I'd need three of 'em and an egg sinker to get down in that torrent.

Sounds like Dallas and I would get along famously...we share the smartass syndrome, too. Now if he could just stop makin' trouble with my boys.

We were waiting at the put-in there for the other guys to finish up the shuttle. We kinda spread out a little once we start floating, and stop now and then to hit a good hole hard or to BS on a gravel bar. We manage to catch plenty of fish, but yeah, we're in it for more than the fishing. It was a perfect weekend to be on a river, even if we had been skunked. I needed that one SO bad...like taking a big, deep, 3 day breath.

Stoneflies are easy to improvise...here's one I settled on last year. Easy to tie, but more realistic than a basic Rubberlegs. It's pretty much a variant of the Northfork Stone.

I've done that float in two days, and with the water up and moving, it'll be easy to make it as long as you don't stop for long periods. Stay in the canoe and hit the best spots and move on. That said, I would also recommend taking out at Bay Creek. IMO the stretch between Bay and Alley isn't all that great anyway, and it'll give you a little more time to fish. And that said, I would consider doing a different river altogether this weekend. Rain is forecast, the water is already up, the ground is already saturated, and JF is a river prone to flash flooding in a major way. I would think long and hard about floating and camping on that river this weekend. It's extremely dangerous down there under these conditions. Good luck and have fun, but be careful.

If this is the punishment for "trespassing" on a public waterway, then I'm fixin' to do some "trespassing" right soon.

Nope, it's an emotional response to facts...

Since your presence on this forum leads me to believe you're a sportsman, I can think of no other reason you would support the bill other than your fanatacism for the NRA. I haven't glazed over any of it...you just haven't given a reasonable argument, from the perspective of a conservation-minded sportsman, to justify the NRA's actions . And yes, I am anti-NRA, and this issue is one of many reasons why.

jeb, you're putting up a good fight, but I think it's a knee jerk position you're taking. If you remove your NRA-colored glasses, you could see this thing more clearly...obviously you're an unflinching supporter of the NRA and feel you have to back them no matter what. Their push to "hamstring," as Tim accurately put it, the MDC, is bad for conservation and bad for sportsmen...period. There's no way to spin it, although you get a 10 out of 10 for your effort. Try to look at it more objectively and through a long-term perspective. If this was PETA lobbying for the same bill (not likely LOL), would you take the same position? I doubt it.

And still entirely IRRELEVANT! If I'm driving 55 mph in a 55 mph zone, does a cop have the right to pull me over because I've had a dozen speeding tickets in the past on the same stretch of road? You just answered your own question there, buddy. The sherriff asked Chief and the boys to stay away for a while to "let things cool off." It was not a demand or enforcement of law, it was a request made in attempt to assuage a hot-headed, egomaniacal landowner. If Chief wanted to float the same stretch the next day, he had the right to. It's just a favor to the local law enforcement.

Yeah, I know, it's all fishy. Who could ever trust a Muslim Kenyan-born socialist? Bet it wouldn't be fishy if W was still in office, no? Get out the X. Sorry Phil, couldn't help it. I'm going fishing tomorrow morning so I won't be here to ruin things for the weekend.

Your talk of goats is bordering on blasphemous. Watch it there. Supposedly he was shot above the left eye, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say your photo had some work done on it.

I think the plural of anus is "ani."

You don't have to be a lawyer to know a law or two. This stream is in the MDC Paddler's Guide, so navigability is not in question. They were doing nothing illegal, so there's nothing to defend. They are on the plaintiff's side of the courtroom, not Prater.

TF is right...makes no difference who knows who, who has history, who slept with who's sister-in-law, who ran over who's dog...doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is these guys have the legal right to float and fish through this landowner's property, they have the legal right to wade in the stream, and they have the legal right to play around on the gravel bars. Period. You can object and call all the witnesses you want...it changes the law zero.

Doesn't matter if there was history with Chief and Prater or not...the floaters had the right to be there and do what they were doing. Too bad for the landowner if he doesn't like it. It's the law.

See you down there GD.

I agree. The fact that he was "hiding" so blatantly out in the open does not fare well for the Pakis (I think we pretty much knew their hearts weren't really in helping us find him). But that doesn't mean it's time to bomb them, too. I think this mission just proves that the "war" on terror should not be one fought on a large scale with hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground and trillions of dollars spent. It should be focused on intelligence and covert ops, just like this one. If they find a training camp, go ahead and bomb the darn thing, but this is not a traditional enemy, and it's not a traditional war, so it shouldn't be fought in a traditional way. We need to bring home about 90% of our troops from EVERY country in the world. You guys know how many troops we still have stationed in Germany and Japan? It's ridiculous. Talk about budget waste!

LOL...Classic!