fishgypsy

I think a lot of it relates to economics, logistics and a lack of foresight- it's difficult to inspect every shipping crate entering our country for invasives, it's difficult to inspect every boat for stowaways. And in most instances there's a lot of effort being put into making up for those past mistakes and errors in judgement. Lest we forget the innumerable introductions made without government approval or endorsement- pythons, caimans, nutrias, iguanas, etc. And that a species doesn't need to be from abroad to be invasive- bullfrogs, tiger salamanders, western mosquitofish, rainbow and brook trout, rusty crayfish, and emerald shiners are all native to parts of the United States, but have caused ecological damage elsewhere. Frankly, I'm not as concerned with the big dramatic species, like kudzu and pythons and flying carp, as I am about the little, easy-to-overlook, highly mobile species. Not to get too far off track, but I'm sometimes fascinated, sometimes disturbed to think what our children's and grandchildren's forests will look like- there are non-native organisms attacking American elm, white walnut (butternut), black walnut, American chestnut, oaks, pines, maples, birches, and ash trees. That doesn't leave much left....

Common carp are still an invasive species, regardless of whether or not they are the hottest thing in fly fishing. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary (all things find a way to exist where they are at)- Yellowfin Cutthroat trout were outcompeted and became extinct due to the introduction of rainbow trout, Alvord cutthroat trout became extinct due to the introduction of rainbow trout, and numerous island species are threatened, endangered, or extinct due to introductions of rodents, dogs, cats, goats, snakes, and other non-native species. Asian carp may be fun to chase with a flyrod, but they're doing incredible damage to other fisheries, both native and non-native. They're incredibly efficient filter feeders, more so than any native fish in the Mississippi Basin. They have the potential to outcompete nearly all of our native fish for food, creating a biomass shift from a diversity of species to just two- bighead and silver carp. You're not gaining an additional species, you're turning a diverse fishery into a monoculture. That's precisely why they're trying so hard to keep them out of the Great Lakes- there's an enormous potential to damage sport and commercial fisheries. Not to mention the danger they pose to boaters and anglers. Personally, I don't think adding asian carp is worth declining or losing altogether fisheries for, paddlefish, white bass, striped bass, largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, spotted bass, common carp, bigmouth buffalo, smallmouth buffalo, black buffalo, freshwater drum, blue sucker, spotted sucker, walleye, sauger, burbot, blue catfish, flathead catfish and other species which rely on plankton or gizzard shad (which rely on plankton). For the most part (aside from brown trout), there's little competition between introduced salmonids and native smallmouth bass. Rainbow, brook, and cutthroat trout require cooler water, spawn at different times of the year and in different areas of the stream, and tend to prey on different organisms. I'm sure though, that there is some competition between brown trout and smallmouth bass, though I don't think state agencies brought brown trout into the state for that reason.

I managed to make it down to the Current today...almost before all the ice and rain. Fished mainly around Tan Vat and downstream, and had the whole place to myself. Not many bugs coming off, a few sporadic caddis and BWO's, but the fish were definitely looking up. I caught a few little rainbows on a #16 X-Caddis, missed five or six others. Fish were also taking blue-winged olives, size 20 or so, and I caught two on #20 BWO hackle stackers. I tried a few nymphs but didn't get much, aside from fish rising to inspect and take my Thingamabobber : ) I tied on a big stimulator for grins, and had three or four fish come up and inspect it. Other than that, not much really going on subsurface. I had a few tugs on a #8 mohair leech, and I had a decent-sized rainbow literally destroy a bright red san juan worm, which was pretty memorable. Wildlife was a little sparse, aside from an immature bald eagle watching me and some funky sort of hawk I saw on the way in. All in all the action was a little slow, but the solitude made up for some of it. Take care!

Blind Pony doesn't allow private boats and has bait restrictions- their lake is a source of water for a hatchery, and they don't want it contaminated with nasties. I think Hazel Creek Lake, up near Kirksville, doesn't allow private boats either.

I think they're worried about introducing zebra mussels into the lakes.

If you're into it, Creve Couer's a good place to catch gar on a flyrod. Has anyone ever tried Marias Temps Clair out toward West Alton? I've seen it on the maps but have never heard anything about it. As for the subdivisions, I suppose I'll have to start doing some scouting : )

If you're into it, Creve Couer's a good place to catch gar on a flyrod. Has anyone ever tried Marias Temps Clair out toward West Alton? I've seen it on the maps but have never heard anything about it. As for the subdivisions, I suppose I'll have to start doing some scouting : )

The carp are pretty good- mild, firm white flesh, similar to tuna. And it is a shame there's been little market development for them yet (human food or otherwise), though I have heard some ventures that breaking the fish down to their fatty acids for vitamin supplements. I liked the article, but it's a shame people focus so much attention on species which will generate a lot of media hype like snakeheads, pythons and killer bees while less sexy invasives, like didymo algae and crayfish, for example, get little or no coverage.

Not to completely hijack the thread, but what's the legality of fishing some of those subdivision ponds in the O'Fallon area, provided you're not a resident? I know some of them hold big hybrid sunfish, which seem like they'd be a ton of fun on light tackle this spring...

Send 'em my way I usually wind up using the whole neck, the rear third just takes a bit longer. Most of mine wind up on buggers, decievers, and as quill-bodied dries and emergers.

Thanks for the report Ted- how did the water look below the park? I'm thinking about hitting it tomorrow or Thursday, before the rain's supposed to come.

True, the water won't warm enough to kill the trout until later in the season. But the water temperature need only be around 40 degrees to trigger a turnover event. If the water at the bottom of the pond is oxygen-depleted, it can result in serious, even lethal stress for the fish. Nutrient inputs (from fertilizers and goose poo), excacerbates the situation. I've seen bass, bluegill, crappie, golden shiners, catfish, even common carp stressed and killed as a result of low oxygen levels and pond turnover- why wouldn't trout, which have significantly higher dissolved oxygen requirements, not be affected? Like I said, I'd rather see those fish on someone's table than floating belly-up. If that means I don't get to spend another week or two fishing for them, so be it. Look on the bright side- you no longer have urban trout fishing distracting you from your duties at the tying desk. Caddis are beginning to pop on the Current. In less than a month, the trout parks will open. Muskie will start stirring once the water reaches the 50's. White bass and walleye will soon begin moving towards spawning areas, and the crappie bite ought to pick up shortly. Blue catfish are staging behind wing dykes on the big rivers for their spawning preparations. And in a few days those urban trout ponds will be devoid of the salmonids, just in time for the bass and bluegill and crappies and catfish to begin waking up. Before too long those bass will start getting into their pre-spawning activities. Don't think of this as the end, just as a different sort of beginning

I'd rather fish a muddy urban pond than Hickory. I hear that place is a real, well....you know. And I'd take issue with that too though- I've seen an awful lot of boneheaded behavior at the trout parks, at Taneycomo, and several of the blue/red ribbon waters. What goes on Feb 1 pales in comparison to the circus that will occur a month from now...

Yeah, the risk some of those folks take in order to get a couple trout for the freezer is a bit ridiculous. I'm not an attorney, but is MDC potentially opening themselves up to a liability lawsuit by stocking these fish? But as for the "slaughter,"- is anyone really surprised? The fish are put in those lakes with the knowledge they'll be harvested. To lament it when they are harvested seems a little silly to me. Pushing the harvest date to March seems a little dicey to me- trout need both cold water and well-oxygenated water. A few warm days and nights, and some warm spring rains could send the lakes into turnover, deplete oxygen in the water column, and kill all the trout before anglers have had a chance to harvest them. A few thousand dead trout floating around an urban lake does no one any good, and I'd rather see those fish in someone's freezer than belly up in a pond.

True, but most chickens bred for hackle aren't part of the food supply. My guess would be it has more to do with raising and transportation costs- grain prices have shot up (chicken feed) as have fuel costs to transport the birds and skins. They're passing those costs onto dealers and consumers. Again, just my guess.

Thanks Buzz, I appreciate it. Definitely something I'll have to work up for this spring!

Last time I was down there, MLK weekend, I did notice they had placed a number of downed trees and rootwads in the lower end, cabling them to the streambed with large boulders. I'm not sure if that's related to the survey stakes you saw or not...

I think breaking off was probably the ideal thing to do, most bronzed freshwater hooks tend to break down in a matter of days, so it may not impact the fish all that much. I agree that playing the fish longer would definitely stress it. Does anyone know if low air temperatures affects survival of fish positively or negatively? My guess would be that air is air, and either way, when the fish is out of water it's going to suffer. But fish are also sensitive to changes in temperature, and I wonder if lower air temperatures benefitted survival when performing C&R. Just thinking (typing) out loud.

Thanks for the report Denjac- would it be possible for you to post or PM me the recipe for the "bunny bug?" I'm not familiar with the pattern. Thanks!

Sounds like a good trip, glad you had fun. I'm thinking of heading down there this weekend and doing some fishing. What sizes/colors Copper Johns were you using? It's one of those patterns I'v had mixed success with (more so than others). It seems some days fish won't leave it alone, others they'll run and hide from it. Thanks for the report!

And I just finished Inventing Montana- Dispatches from the Madison Valley, by Ted Leeson. Got it for Christmas, it's a great book.

I agree up to a point, but these whalers aren't sportsman. They're commercial whalers, veiling questionably-legal activities under the guise of "scientific research," the portion-sized pieces of which are sold in markets. And I don't think it's a cultural thing, as we've had a pretty poor record of managing delicious animals ourselves (sturgeon caviar, buffalo tongue, market hunting of waterfowl and shorebirds in the 19th century, atlantic salmon, orange roughy, redfish, striped bass, chilean seabass, egrets and herons which were shot for their plumage, etc)

I picked up "Devil at the Confluence," last night, a history of St. Louis blues and jazz. So far it's pretty cool, light reading, more of a coffee-table type book. But I've learned a lot.

In an earlier post, Brian said he was the one who fished Hickory Creek it this year, and that he shared the opinion of Matt. And you seem to have avoided my question: why does where they're from even matter? What bearing does that have on the value of their opinion? If Matt's opinion is somehow invalid because he's visited the stream but is from St. Louis, then what does that say about your opinion, if you're from out of state and have never been on the banks of the stream in question? Chief- I guess I'm having trouble how you came up with your response. Did you read my entire post, or are you taking things out of context again? In the same paragraph I wrote: "Neither opinion is necessarily wrong, just different, based on the individual's ideas of what makes a good stream, time spent and personal experience" Certainly not endorsing one opinion over another, or saying only these people have a valid opinion. But I suppose you conveniently overlooked that. As an aside, can you PM me with a list of 20 or so streams you fish regularly? I have an idea for my blog..... I don't see a problem with anyone expressing an opinion, I just think it's silly to jump down people's throats because their opinion may be contrary to yours, and descending into petty, personal attacks and mudslinging. It's ridiculous. And I can't wrap my mind around how Matt and Brian's opinions are offensive while Chief's rhetoric is "brash". What's the difference, and why is one okay and the other unacceptable? Can someone enlighten me? Patfish, I love that quote- "No one has the right to never be offended," though I can't remember where it came from. And I'm down for a beer smmit. I'll even bring some to share

Whether Chief is one of the most conservation-minded guys you've met has no bearing on whether or not what he said was inappropriate. Ollie, I commend you for your efforts on Hickory Creek. I know how difficult it can be to maintain streams in urban areas, it's an uphill battle to be sure. That you sacrifice your free time to do it is laudable, and I sincerely thank you. I'm not trying to apologize for Brian, but I don't think he was trying to demean your efforts. Rather, I think he was trashing (no pun intended), the folks that are dumping garbage into Hickory Creek in the first place, and I think that's something we can all get behind. Brian's not from St. Louis, and what the @#%@ would it matter even if he were? Does his geographic proximity to Hickory Creek mean he's not entitled to an opinion, or that he's not entitled to a negative opinion, or that he's not entitled to share his negative opinion? Who gets to decide that? What's the maximum distance someone can live from Hickory Creek and express an opinion regarding the stream? I know a couple folks in Springfield and one or two in Buffalo and Neosho that would agree with Brian's assessment of Hickory Creek, what's that mean? You live in Kansas, and you've never visited Hickory Creek. Does that mean your opinion regarding the stream (good, bad, or otherwise), is invalid too? Here's how I see it: Brian took Hickory Creek out on a date. Not a bouquet of flowers and fancy dinner type of date, a twenty-minutes-during-lunch, hit the highlights and see if anything clicks type date. Fly fishing, speed dating style. He took ol' Hickory out and came back with the opinion she was a trashy bucktoothed dwarf with a FUPA. That's his opinion, based on his experience, and by all means he's entitled to it. On the other hand, you may take her out and think she's incredible, a smart Jessica Alba effortlessly playing a 20 lb steelhead in hip boots in a string bikini. Someone to bring home to Mom and Dad. Neither opinion is necessarily wrong, just different, based on the individual's ideas of what makes a good stream, time spent and personal experience. Certainly nothing to get in a tizzy about. As an aside, how is it that Brian's opinion of Hickory Creek is invalid since he only spent an hour on the water, yet that he didn't catch any fish on the stream in that hour is an indication of his fishing prowess?