Gigging vs Smallmouth conflict

[MoCarp]

Guys, I think I said it in the other thread, but I'll say it again...

I believe, and I'm far from the only one, that illegal gigging is one of the most significant factors in depressing the number of large adult bass in the Meramec.

These are people that support your right to fish and hunt. They just enjoy a different method than you.

I agree on the 1st quote--ONE bad apple can ruin a stretch of river for years just ONE

on number two, I have heard that argument before that the fringe groups "support" others right to hunt and fish--does that mean if gigging was banned you would not rod and reel fish? or support hunting and fishing rights?--hardly--that mindset is used to illisit support from those who otherwise would not....

if you do a little history checking you will see a great deal of resistance to change back at the turn of the century, when game laws where 1st enacted--heck back then they used dynomite and gillnets to harvest fish

I am sure if the state put a season on those methods-- we would have a few use nets and TNT

Gigging gives THE POTENTAL of overharvesting the top 5% of smallmouths in a river--flatheads are very dormant as well and get harvested even though it illegal to snag them in winter--there are those that target them

do I have an answer?- nope..but the way to get change is to organize and speak up for reg changes

My 2 cents

Mo

[Wayne SW/MO]

If gigging is eliminated on some waters, it won't mean that the Suckers won't be utilized because they can still allow grabbing.

[Kicknbass]

The laws are already on the books banning gigging of game fish. I agree that law enforcement is a tool that should be utilized greater than current levels. I also agree that one bad apple can hurt the population. But lets not legislate against the law abiding. I would love it if the state increased the number of SMB management areas in the state, but not if it means restricting the rights of the gigging community. If you have found areas that have a large number of trophy bass being targeted. Report this to the local MDC agent and maybe they can get the funding for greater enforcement in these areas. Most of the gigging community would absolutely support enforcement of the game laws to help the SMB population. Most of the gigging community are SMB fisherman in the warmer months.

The waters in the state that are the best gigging waters are also some of the best SMB waters. The gigging community has been around for many years and as the rod and reel community have become more conservation minded. Look in the old photos of BASS and you will see that catch and release was not always the ways of most sportsmen. There are still some bad apples, just like there are bad apples in the rod and real community that will take short fish and excess of their limits.

[MoCarp]

If you have found areas that have a large number of trophy bass being targeted. Report this to the local MDC agent and maybe they can get the funding for greater enforcement in these areas.

unless MDC enforcement agents work 2 or 3 nights a week setting sting operations like is done with deer & turkey decoys to catch road hunters--I do not see it working as it only takes ONE night and ONE bad apple to ruin a stretch of river--that cannot be said of even a rod and reel violater who could not even on the best of days decimate the big smallie population on a given day--over time yes --

but not to the extent of what a rouge gigger could do, anyone that knows giggers have all heard the storys of misconduct, not all giggers violate the law, but the ones that do, rob ALL OF US of rare trophy smallies that takes years to replace if ever.

the question is does the love of gigging out weigh the need to protect big smallies???

[Kicknbass]

In my opinion, the issue is not about the love of gigging, or the love of smallies, but the slow erosion of our rights as outdoorsman. The enviro wackos and groups such as PETA that are well funded and actively protest Fishing tournaments such as they did at last years Citco Bassmasters classic in Pittsburgh PA would love to eliminate Gigging, then bait fishing then fishing in general. The goal is called divide and concur. First they get the fishing community to divide and eliminate gigging in SMB waters. Then they advocate against bait fisherman, then all fishing. Lets not turn on the gigging community because we don't believe it is a valid form of fishing. Gigging is the oldest form of fishing.

The gig fishermen were gigging the SMB management waters before the idea was a thought. If the gig fisherman were decimating the populations, then why has the SMB management areas improved with the new management laws? If gigging in these areas were such a determent, the management laws would not have had such a drastic effect improving the fishing in these waters. My experience is that the laws have greatly improved the fishing in these areas. However, the gigging pressure has remained somewhat constant.

Law enforcement should be better funded to set up sting operations and have a greater presence on the rivers during gigging season as they do during the Deer and Turkey seasons. It would be relatively easy to do w/ the limited access to the rivers. The gigging boats must come back to their rigs to trailer and leave. A presence at the SMB management areas would have an effect on the mindset of the poachers.

[MoCarp]

In my opinion, the issue is not about the love of gigging, or the love of smallies, but the slow erosion of our rights as outdoorsman. The enviro wackos and groups such as PETA that are well funded and actively protest Fishing tournaments such as they did at last years Citco Bassmasters classic in Pittsburgh PA would love to eliminate Gigging.

to call more restrictive harvest methods to fall into plans of any "green" org is like saying supporting a "flys only" area of a stream to be in league with peta--

in this day and age streams are under pressure like never before--a few rouge giggers would not have any long term effect in the old days--but today combined with greater and greater demands on our Ozark streams--gigging may belong in the past with buffalo hunts and clear cutting the hills by tie hackers,

The old days a wood torch or later a colman lantern, is replaced today with modern haolgen spotlite powerd by 21st century batteries that can go for 10 hours on a charge.. allowing one to be effective longer on the river, many giggers now use archeryfishing gear that allows greater ranger and the ability to quickly harvest many more fish than was possable even just 20 years ago-----

sometimes those fish are 5 pound smallmouth bass--whether its a woops or a intoxicated misjudgment--that bass is GONE, most rod and reel folks might mount the fish... but rare would they eat it, in some waters its a problem as witness by the newspaper artical,

in the past orgs like trout unlimited came to the help of anglers to better trout fishing beyond what state govs did...may be its time for a smallmouth unlimited to do the same

JMHO

Mo

[Forsythian]

gigging may belong in the past with buffalo hunts and clear cutting the hills by tie hackers,

Your willingness to throw other sportsmen under the train, abolishing a sport you've obviously never tried (or certainly have never gained experience in) puts you in bed with PETA because it is not resource-management decision, it is a "I don't do it and I don't like it" decision. I'd be very surprised if any smallmouth organization would last long if it were to alienate and demonize a significant portion of its fellow sportsmen, when there are so many other more important issues (gravel mining, non-point source pollution, green belts, etc.).

The old days a wood torch or later a colman lantern, is replaced today with modern haolgen spotlite powerd by 21st century batteries that can go for 10 hours on a charge.. allowing one to be effective longer on the river, many giggers now use archeryfishing gear that allows greater ranger and the ability to quickly harvest many more fish than was possable even just 20 years ago-----

There are so many things wrong here, from battery-powered lights to "the archery fishing gear"... all I can say is that a little more knowledge of the sport you seek to abolish would improve the credibility of your position. One last thing.. it is suckers we are killing and eating (not harvesting), and unless we are discussing a shortage of redhorse or hog mollies, I guess I don't get the argument against the technical improvements in our sport!

[jscheetz]

Oh boy. Where do you start. Well - if we are going to throw everyone who wants to see more limited gigging and better law enforcement in with "Peta and Wackos" then I guess who's the other side? "Backwards hillbillies out all night drinkin corn liquor and spearin whatever they see" ??? It works both ways.

And "Divide and conquer"?? I am sorry, but if you hate to see the "tradition" of gigging like it has existed in the past - get attacked like - "Bear baiting" - and "Fox hunting"???? I mean you are now putting gigging in with those two? Wow - I sure admire your honesty- - - Just to clarify you really were lamenting the way people have stood up against the archaic redneck practice of "baiting" a bear in close enough to kill it right? Geeesh - Well if that is the position of the "gigging community of sportsmen" - Then move over PETA and give me some blanket cause I'm coming in.

JS

[Simsmarine]

Yeah ya know I'm about "over" hearing what a "Genuine Ozark Tradition" gigging is....

Marrying your cousin is a genuine ozark tradition too, but they quit that crap a long time ago once they learned of the damage it caused.

Lets not turn on the gigging community because we don't believe it is a valid form of fishing. Gigging is the oldest form of fishing.

Nobody is "turning on it" because of that. They are "turning on it" because the evidence that it IS a problem is like a slap in the face to anyone that spends a reasonable amount of time on the rivers.

Furthermore, this debate is no more fueling PETA than the vice Pres. hunting accident is fueling gun control.

[Kicknbass]

Oh boy. Where do you start. Well - if we are going to throw everyone who wants to see more limited gigging and better law enforcement in with "Peta and Wackos" then I guess who's the other side? "Backwards hillbillies out all night drinkin corn liquor and spearin whatever they see" ??? It works both ways.

Peta and the Wackos would love to drive a wedge between like minded sportsman that may have a differance of opinion on a specific topic. But I guess you don't see a differance between the legal taking of suckers by the use of a gig vs. poaching SMB. You obviously have a low opinion of the gigging community calling them backwards hillbillies drunk on corn liquor. It appears the wedge is placed and the maul is midswing.

how do you use the quote. I need a lesson.