Comment Thread - Shuffling

[Brian K. Shaffer]

You just don't see them JS.. but believe me - they see a lot of what goes on down there.

I have called on and gotten prompt responses to numerous issues.

True - this enforcement is not infalliable - but at least its something and it works.

Brian

[gonefishin]

Sorry guys but I voted no change...for now. Not because I agree with shuffling but because there were no parameters. What actually constitutes shuffling? It seems to me that just walking in the water disturbes the bottom so does that mean a person who is wade fishing is also a shuffler? Could implementing this as a law actually outlaw all wade fishing in Taney? Again I am sorry but until some parameters are established defining exactly what constitutes shuffling my vote remains no change.

[Randall]

further up the thread, there are two posts that give examples of parameters. there is a big difference between wading and shuffling. like snagged said, they ruin the fishing for those around them, and it is pretty unattractive compared to real flyfishing. whats the point in fishing if the challenge is taken out? i'd rather spend a day catching only a few, learning from my mistakes than spend it cheating to catch tons of fish. it really just gets under my skin when i see a person resorting to unsporting methods to acquire game.

flysmallie, i respect your opinion on hunters, but many many years ago, when people settled this area, they killed off the local predators. we then hunted deer and turkey to the point that they were nearly wiped out. conservation efforts have brought them back, but without predators in a food chain, we get overpopulation and starvation. i'd rather be shot than starve any day of the week. i believe that hunting is ethical because it serves several purposes: 1) thins out the population so that there is enough food to support the population during the winter, giving us a healthier and stronger herd. 2) puts food on the table- venison is lean, high in protein, and tastes good. 3) high populations in parts of the state have significantly affected farmers' profits- hunting, once again, thins the herd so that there are fewer deer to eat the crops. 4) hunting has created a multi-million dollar industry that provides jobs. 5) creates a healthy obsession- a good hunter will spend time in the woods scouting and hanging stands, and late season drives can be a workout too.

I don't mean to be condescending, i really don't, but i take it personally when people say that hunting is unethical. hunters that use what they kill are ethical, wasteful hunters aren't.

[motroutbum]

And as Dano stated, the regulation would have to be gin clear in the wording.

Im pretty sure that this is clear enough....To disturb or dislodge the stream bottom for the purpose of attracting fish is illegal. fishbork the reason the fish have "learned" to get the free meal is because of shufflers. also, the species of gammarus aka scuds are native.

[Flysmallie]

flysmallie, i respect your opinion on hunters, but many many years ago, when people settled this area, they killed off the local predators. we then hunted deer and turkey to the point that they were nearly wiped out. conservation efforts have brought them back, but without predators in a food chain, we get overpopulation and starvation. i'd rather be shot than starve any day of the week. i believe that hunting is ethical because it serves several purposes: 1) thins out the population so that there is enough food to support the population during the winter, giving us a healthier and stronger herd. 2) puts food on the table- venison is lean, high in protein, and tastes good. 3) high populations in parts of the state have significantly affected farmers' profits- hunting, once again, thins the herd so that there are fewer deer to eat the crops. 4) hunting has created a multi-million dollar industry that provides jobs. 5) creates a healthy obsession- a good hunter will spend time in the woods scouting and hanging stands, and late season drives can be a workout too.

I don't mean to be condescending, i really don't, but i take it personally when people say that hunting is unethical. hunters that use what they kill are ethical, wasteful hunters aren't.

Okay, so maybe unethical was not a good choice of words for hunting. I know that it is a very valuable resource for our state and brings in lots of money. And I know that the herds need to be thinnned. My wife did some extensive damage to a car by hitting a deer. And for those of you that are familiar with Springfield know that you shouldn't have to worry about hitting a deer at the intersection of West Bypass and Chestnut Expressway. The point I was trying to make was that if it was illegal I would have a reason to ask people not to do it, just like if shuffling was illegal then I would have better luck at asking someone to stop. Don't get the two confused, while I don't hunt myself, I wouldn't want it to be illegal. The benefits of hunting are too great. But I don't see any benefits to shuffling, except for the person doing it.

So please continue to enjoy hunting. Don't be upset by my bad choice of words. Like I said, all of my best friends hunt. And If you kill a nice buck send me some jerkey, I love that stuff!!

[jOrOb]

The real problem is that the law would focus on intent. If someone intended to stir up the bottom for the purpose of catching fish then it would be illegal. Pretty difficult to determine intent. In our current legal system, issues of intent are usually decided by a jury of 12 peers. Not feasable for this situation.

AR doesn't really even handle shuffling well. They outlaw Chumming. Using this method, it has to be pretty obvious what is happening.

So where do you draw the line. Is it illegal for me to drift in someones wake as they cross? Can I drift my own feet as long as I walk carefully? Seems to me that the catching of fish from shuffling is not the issue. It seems that the disruption of insect colonies from the gravel bed is. If that is the case, then perhaps we should outlaw wading all together.

I do not shuffle anymore. I made an ethical decision not to. But I do feel that it was an ethical decision, not a conservation issue.

I will say for the record that I vote "illegal", but I think that the law should focus on environmental degredation, not fishing.

jOrOb

[bronzeback]

ILLEGAL

[WebFreeman]

Illegal.

The worst are the guys with 4 1/2 ultralight spinning rods and bobbers. They never even use the reels. They might as well be using cane polls.

Making it illegal and posting signs may be enough to curtail some of it, especially being so close to the hatchery and easily accessible to covservation agents. It's far from a remote area.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Anything proposed eventually would have to get past a judge.

The commission has repeatedly said that they don't want to enforce ethics. It would seem that with that in mind, the damage to the stream bed and subsequent damage, if any, to the fish population would have to be the bottom line.

[Brian K. Shaffer]

Saw a MDC agent there today ( Tuesday ) watching with binoculars.

motrout - scuds/sowbugs are not necessarily native - they were introduced from Rock Bridge, MO.

Saw one guy kicking up above 2.. so I moved to the boat ramp and got skunked

best fishes - Brian