Oaf Elections!

[jdmidwest]

Nice thing about Alaska Phil, you are so busy that you do not have time to worry about what is going on with the rest of the world. Alaska is a world all to its own and big enough to consume your thoughts for a long while. You have so much fun that you really don't care.

I agree with Trav on the point of churches, I consider myself to be agnostic. Churches where I grew up were full of friends and family and we all tithed to keep it going. Now days, all local churches are striving to be bigger, better. One local church just added a $3 million playroom for the kids. I feel once that they start making profits like that, they have lost touch with the whole meaning of churches. Pride and greed are sins too.

The last thing in the world we need is more taxes. I am for a flat tax or a consumption tax. I believe it would be the only fair way. Which brings back Nobama, he is for MORE taxes. That is his change and we don't need it. If you feel that you are not paying enough, go to the local courthouse or IRS and offer them some more of your hard earned money. I personally want to keep the meager amount I have left over after SS tax, Fed tax, Payroll tax, State tax, Gas tax, Property tax, Excise tax, Liquor tax, Personal Property tax, Real Estate tax, State Licenses, Sales tax, etc.

One other thing to remember about NOBAMA is that he comes from the most gun restrictive state of IL. He has been against gun ownership all along and could reverse the progress of the last eight years.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I now what you mean Al. There wasn't a lot to work with. Here is a fact though. Obama caught some heat earlier for not being patriotic because he didn't wear a flag lapel pin. So he started wearing one. When that came out, the same day in fact, I turned my attention to Insane McCain's (I apologize for that. I said I wouldn't do that and I did.) lapel and to this date have yet to see a flag pinned on there. Yet you hear nothing.

The point being, they don't have anything on Obama. So there must be fabrications.

Trav - I agree with your whole post. I would like to add that many church's, I believe, cross the line when it comes to politics. They are not supposed to speak of politics in the way that they do.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Hey there JD, I know we differ completely politically but would like to point out that Obama is wanting to give you back $1000 of your tax money.

At some point in time we are going to have to pay for what has happened with the unprecedented spending of the last 8 years. I don't feel that it is the responsibility of my kids or yours. It is not the responsibility of my future grandchildren or yours.

If you want something, you have to pay for it. America wanted Bush so now we have to pay for it. Well really America didn't want him as he was not voted in, in his first term, he was appointed by the Supreme Court. But what do you do.

[Guest kevinkirk]

As much as McCain is of the old school, you wait and see if we get Obama in there. Taxes will go thru the roof, you will lose your home exclusion on gains we have now, capital gains will go over 50% and social welfare type programs will grow. The democrats love social govt and programs as its a way to control more people with rules and laws. Again, I have worked in a union for over 30 yrs and neither party has ever helped us with contracts. My union almost demands that I vote democrat but I remember Clinton hosing us in two contracts when he had to rule on it. So much for the working man.

Having said all that. They are all punched out of the same material and same ppl are backing them and running the country. From the highest to the lowest agovt agency, its the same. Men who gain power over another will become corrupt. That is due to the selfish nature of man when unchecked by religious conviction. It is a fact that we are our brothers keeper and if everyone was careful to love his neighbor as himself, this nation would rise to a new level of world prominence.

NOW are the fish biting as that is the only thing that prob matters due to not being able to change any of this.

[Phil Lilley]

Going to try to touch on the church issue.

The organized church in America has failed in many respects. There are remnants of good working churches here and there but few do what they are supposed to. Many have gone the way of American society and focus too much on material things instead of eternal things. The church of Acts shared everything, took care of the poor and widowed and preached the Gospel even to their death. There are many people all over the world that are making the ultimate sacrifice still today to bring the Good News. VOM

It all starts in the heart of the people. "If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." 2 Ch 7:14

As far as taxes... it doesn't make any difference to me. If it happens, churches will bring it on themselves. But just because a church is large and tithes equal thousands and millions of dollars doesn't make it a bad church. And they aren't bad for trying to grow either. But churches are full of imperfect people and we make mistakes just like everyone else. We are held to a higher standard, and that is how it's supposed to be.

[Guest kevinkirk]

My dad was pastor for 55 yrs and of course, I had to help all the years he was there. Saw so many excesses around us, I sure have become jaded. I know I should not be but the rich men who are running the churches today are a far cry from what i think Jesus intended. No one needs huge houses, jet planes and mega churches. We really need community churches where the pastor knows each person and where the parishioners then can impact their own neighborhood. Just my take after 52 yrs in the movement.

I hope to find a community church when I get there where they preach the gospel and not the new age feel good doctrine so popular. We do all the building and growth and feel good stuff while ppl around us are going to hell. Now I try and visit the sick and do the things I can HERE and NOW. All the rest is just busy work.

We remove our children from public schools and ingssence leave the public schools to having no good kids there to have an impact. THen wonder why those private school kids cannot function whenthey get out of high school and have to face the real world Yes, its evil out there. So teach YOUR kids how to resist that and how to handle it.

Just my take. As I said, been there done that. Worn slick with all that nonsense.

[Trav]

Chief,

I think that an entire lifetime, including 5 years as a POW, proves that McCain is devoted to his country. He dont have to prove it. Is that devotion insane? Probably, but you cant doubt the mans loyalties.

Nobama has publicly spoke against the second amendment and has very little to show when it comes to public service or american loyalty. All we have is his word. I dont believe the talk, but I can believe the walk.

Nobama is all talk and McCain is all walk!

[Tightline]

Kevinkirk, your so right about the new church pastors compared to the old bible beating, door nocking kind which is what my dad was.I remember us driving all over Taney County just for visitation,and to pick up a few kids to bring them to church.We use to get goverment issued comodities like cheese and eggs gave to us instead of money for tithing.Those were the real men of God.

Trav, are you a Republican crying for taxation,thats a switch.

I don't think any church or charity should be taxed no matter how big,as long as most of the money is not going into the pockets of the pastor or clergymen.The Billy Graham crusades were a good example of how it should be done.

I have been a devoted Republican ever since I cast my first vote some 30 odd years ago,mainly because of the standing promise of a moral look of politics.

But after the last 8 years seeing jobs lost,people suffering trying to make it on lower wages,while big buisiness,Oil,Gas,Pharmasuticals have rolled in billions of dollars,I now consider myself an Independent.I'm not sure who I will vote for just yet.

In my opinion there needs to a third party,there's just too much difference between the Democrats and the Republicans for anything to ever get done.

I was told by freind who is a Democrat in 2004 after I had just voted for George W. that if anyone who made less than 200K a year voted Republican that they were brain washed.

I'm starting to see, that might be true.

[Buzz]

Trav, you are very correct in stating the necessary evil of taxation. The fact is that if we don't pay enough taxes the government just goes out to the international community and borrows it. Countries like China own so much of our debt that if they ever decided to cash-out this country would be little more than what they were 30 years ago. I do believe that the taxation should be fair to all. I, over the past 10 years have gone to great lengths to get myself out of debt. I have only a house payment and utilities, no credit cards. Pay as you go is my belief. "If you ain't got it to spend you probably shouldn't buy it."

Missouri has in it's Constitution a law that basically states that if more money is taken in than the budget is set for it must be returned to the people. I remember when Carnahan was Governor we received at least two checks, two years in a row because of this law. I don't remember any suffering on my part. It's unfortunate he had died before getting to go to Washington to try to teach the Senate how this can be done. Also, we as a state thought enough of his abilities to do so that we voted him into office knowing full well that he had passed. Apparently deciding that a dead man was the lesser of two evils.

Basically, I will pay the taxes and hope that everyone else does also, and hope that they are being put to good use. BTW, if we could just figure out how to keep both of the houses from looking at the Social Security money as a cash cow we wouldn't have to worry if we will have something when we retire.

Buzz

[Thom]

Oh now I remember why I quit posting here.

We are offered to participate in a poll in an important presidential election by someone who can't even spell the name of one of the canidates.

A genius who scorns a religion which has changed history and by which the majority of our sensible civil laws in this country is based.

Who could take such a poll seriously?

I might consider voting for McCaint but could someone tell me where he stands. He has changed his positons 4 times that I can tell by reading his senate record just on abortion and immigartion. Maybe if he could have Kerry as his running mate then he could present both positions at the same time.

Why did I even bother.