Big O Born In Kneya?

[Danoinark]

Mad? Gosh you don't know me very well. Discussions of US and International politics would never cause me to get mad or even a bit angry. There are too many more important things in life. But isn't it great that we can have civil discussions without fear of reprisal from anyone?

Our constitution guarantees that..just as whoever is elected the Chief Executive is sworn to uphold it for all of us. When you get moved down this way then I would be happy to share a fishing trip despite the fact we might not agree, but it is a common bond among those who don't.

Dano

[McCloud]

Your right JD it was signed into law, after passing in both the house and senate, in 1993. And both senators from Mo, Bond and Danforth, both republicans voted in favor of it. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll...&vote=00394

I do not hold the NRA is as high regard as some due to the fact that in my opinion it is nothing more than a republican political scare machine. My father is a member and all I have seen for his contribution (dues as they call them) is sticker, a propaganda publication, and a phone call every four years. But, God bless him, he thinks he doing right. There ploy has worked on him.

As far as the Brady Bill and shotguns, I think you may have that mixed up with some other law. Isn't the Brady Bill only dealing with the waiting period?

The Brady Law today

The five-day waiting period for handgun purchases expired on November 30, 1998 and was replaced by a computerized criminal background check prior to any firearm purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License (FFL). All dealers, manufacturers and importers must verify the identity of a non-FFL customer and receive authorization from the National Instant Check System (NICS) which often takes only minutes instead of the several-day waiting period.

Unless an exception applies or the purchase is being made using an approved alternative method, Brady Law requires that background checks for individuals be conducted before a firearm may be purchased from a dealer, manufacturer or importer. Unless there are additional state restrictions, the firearm may be taken upon NICS approval. Purchases from a non-FFL seller are not subject to the Brady Law, but may be covered under other federal, state, and local restrictions. This distinction prevails without regard to the locus of the sale. Thus FFL sales at gun shows are still subject to NICS approval while private sales are not. The so-called "Gun Show Loophole" would be more accurately called a "Private Sale Loophole."

The Brady Law does not apply to licensed Curios & Relics (C&R) collectors, but only in respect to C&R firearms.[5] The FFL Category 03 Curio & Relic license costs $30 and is valid for 3 years. Licensed C&R collectors may also purchase C&R firearms from private individuals or from federal firearms dealers, whether in their home state or in another state, and ship C&R firearms in interstate commerce by common carrier. Curios or relics are defined in 27 CFR 478.11 as "Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons." The regulation further states

To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

( Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or

© Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun..._Prevention_Act

Also, do you remember a democrat governor that we had by the name of Carnahan? Mel Carnahan? When he started a new kinda thing that when the state budget was balanced and there was a surplus of money, it was distributed to the citizens of the state? I remember getting two checks from him. Not much. A couple of hundred dollars if I remember correctly. I wonder if there is any connection to the fact that we haven't had a democrat for a governor since or a check?

I do'nt believe the credit or blame for that is Carnahan's but a Springfield businessman named Hancock it was an amendment that indeed allowed for surplus to be distributed to taxpayers.If you resaerch that I believe you will find that the state politicians put an end to it through tax reductions thus reducing revenue.After Carnahan I believe we had Bob Holden and Roger Wilson both Democrats.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Oh yeah yeah yeah. Hancock. I had forgot all about him. I believe you are correct as I do recall "The Hancock amendment". I forgot all about Wilson. Thanks for setting me straight. I should have taken my own advice huh? I was really trying get a JD a little and it backfired. Dang it!

[Al Agnew]

Here's one of those 30 second soundbytes..."Democrats want to take away our guns, Republicans want to take away our places to use them."

The gun issue is one that I struggle with when it comes time to vote. If I could wave a magic wand and make a law that would keep guns out of the hands of criminals and insane people while not affecting the vast majority of gun owners who are neither, I would. but I KNOW that is impossible. I support waiting periods and background checks, but that's about it. And I know that the average Democrat would like to wave the magic wand and make guns disappear, and most of their gun control proposals are just about that stupid.

Yet I cannot support Republicans to whom wildlife and wild places always take a backseat to industry and profit.

As sportsmen, we all face those choices. CAFO next to Roaring River? Republican supported. Unregulated gravel mining? Supported by Republicans. Selling off national forest land? Supported by Republicans. Now, not all Republicans support such things...or at least not all of them support them wholeheartedly without restrictions. Not all Democrats are environmental saints, either. And the fact is that most politicians of both parties are beholden to some extent to the resource-exploiting industries who contribute to their campaigns, and whose lobbyists have almost unlimited access to them. But at least the Democrats tend to be a little less beholden.

I think, and hope, that with the recent Supreme Court decision, the second amendment has been better delineated. And maybe the Democrats are finally beginning to get it...if you're going to propose gun control laws, they better be smart and they better not unduly tick off all of us out here in the sticks. I do not expect a party that depends upon urban areas for a lot of its support to ever totally drop the gun control thing, but I also don't think they are making it a big deal this election.

Other than that, I don't know what else to say to those of you who vote Republican based upon the gun control thing, other than, showing up at NRA meetings and bass tournaments does not necessarily mean they truly care enough about the land and waters which we depend upon.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Good post Al. I agree with 99%. There is one line that I don't quite agree with and it is this one:

And I know that the average Democrat would like to wave the magic wand and make guns disappear, and most of their gun control proposals are just about that stupid.

But than again, maybe we are above average. I not quite sure how you would measure that though.

Did you or anyone catch Obama's speech last night when he said: "The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals."

At least to me he sounds like he is thinking in the right direction.

[jdmidwest]

Now that you bring that up, the Clinton Admin stripped funding away from several Federal Hatcheries like the one at Mammoth that used to raise Smallies and Stripers. They were closed for several years, some are coming back online now. The Clinton Admin is also responsible for all the fees now at the Corp and NPS properties. You have to pay to park, launch, dock, swim etc now. That was all enacted during the Clinton Admin as a big money raising scheme for the Federal Government. And they had to hire people to collect the fees, so it created jobs.

The assault weapons banned were a little high priced for your average criminal. AK-47 $400, AR-15 $800, HK $1000. Most street crimes were commited with cheap handguns, sawed off shotguns, and Tec 9's. Organized crime had the higher powered weapons. People were just trained that the target weapons were the bad ones by the media. Black gun, bad gun! Semi auto is a machine gun.... Stuff like that scared people.

[Al Agnew]

Yep, most politicians of either party have feet of clay. So you vote for them and are usually disappointed in the results. But you still vote for them hoping they are better than the opposition, who you usually KNOW you'll get bad results from. And the real bummer is, whenever you vote for a national candidate--Senate, President, etc.--even though you're voting maybe based on a few key issues to you, you're actually saying to them, "Yep, I believe in EVERYTHING you stand for." And usually, they seem to end up pushing through the stuff you DON'T like and ignoring the stuff you really care about.

We need to start the Green Sportsman's Party.

[bigredbirdfan]

I think most here have already made up their minds.

What will be interesting is the other fools barely able to tie their shoe laces that are "independent." How you can be tossed up between these two men is more than laughable downright distrubing.

If you don't think Obama is not supported by high profile Celebs tied into PETA you might be

[Chief Grey Bear]

Now that you bring that up, the Clinton Admin stripped funding away from several Federal Hatcheries like the one at Mammoth that used to raise Smallies and Stripers. They were closed for several years, some are coming back online now. The Clinton Admin is also responsible for all the fees now at the Corp and NPS properties. You have to pay to park, launch, dock, swim etc now. That was all enacted during the Clinton Admin as a big money raising scheme for the Federal Government. And they had to hire people to collect the fees, so it created jobs.

I seem to remember it just the opposite. When my dad and I would go to Stockton in the '80's, we had to pay an on site attendant to camp. I don't recall is if the use of the ramp was included or not. Then some time later they got rid of the attendants and lost jobs. I think we had to pay to launch at TRock too. I was pretty young at the time so don't recall all of the details.

Do you have source for the closings? Was it just because he wanted them closed or was there not a need or a reduced need for those stockers?

[jdmidwest]

I have a source, the Mammoth Spring Warmwater Hatchery employees told me so. It was in the news also, several of the Federal Fish hatcheries were closed. We used to visit with them several times during the year. The state hatchery at Dam 3 was not affected, state monies.

Local lakes at Clearwater and Wappappello started charging fees as did Council Bluff near Belgrade. Another lake west of Van Buren was affected also. Al may remember the Council Bluff affair.

Clinton stripped alot of funding from the park service and fisheries divisions. Bush has not done anything to change it though.