Common Sense Conservationists

[fishinwrench]

He can't use real names or he'd be sued.

"Missouri Dept. of Conservation"...is a pretty "real" name

They first must show that his statements are both damaging, and untrue....then he can be sued.

This is disturbing, and in my eyes anyone who isn't concerned about this, and doesn't wish to know the real facts...is either a nieve (stepford citizen) or has a hidden agenda. Dablemonts statements have definately been reviewed from those within, so why no comment? Are these accusations of no concern to the MDC? Are they addressing this at all, or just waiting to see what evidence is there first? Exercising their right to remain silent in the face of public scrutiny looks bad and reaks of legal BS if you ask me.

I love what we have in this state as far as our outdoor resources, and if the only way we can have it the way we do is for the dept. to operate crookedly....then so be it. The world (law, politics, ect.) is a crooked place, no surprise there. But it would be really cool to know that the MDC is on the up and up, and not just another form of crooked government.

[ozark trout fisher]

"Missouri Dept. of Conservation"...is a pretty "real" name

They first must show that his statements are both damaging, and untrue....then he can be sued.

This is disturbing, and in my eyes anyone who isn't concerned about this, and doesn't wish to know the real facts...is either a nieve (stepford citizen) or has a hidden agenda. Dablemonts statements have definately been reviewed from those within, so why no comment? Are these accusations of no concern to the MDC? Are they addressing this at all, or just waiting to see what evidence is there first? Exercising their right to remain silent in the face of public scrutiny looks bad and reaks of legal BS if you ask me.

I love what we have in this state as far as our outdoor resources, and if the only way we can have it the way we do is for the dept. to operate crookedly....then so be it. The world (law, politics, ect.) is a crooked place, no surprise there. But it would be really cool to know that the MDC is on the up and up, and not just another form of crooked government.

I am not nieve, and believe me I have no secret agenda, but I don't believe a word of these accusations. I have seen no proof or even the slightest grain of evidence, and I live in a country where one is innocent until proven guilty. I have to admit that I have only had personal conversation with a few MDC agents, but they all seem to know what they are talking about, and more importantly they all seemed like honest fellows who really care about the fish and wildlife of Missouri. Just so you know redbird, there are MDC agents on this forum, and I'm sure they don't much appreciate you hurling insults upon them. You seem like a guy that just doesn't like the government in general, and that's ok, but it doesn't give you the right to make unsubstatiated accusations. Personally, I'm not a guy that either goes in liking the gov, or disliking it. If they do a good job, and I feel they are doing what they are supposed to be doing, I admire them. I feel the MDC falls into this category.

I have even had email conversations with some of the "big whigs" regarding management issues, the Trout Park Zone issue being one of them, and they answered my question thoughtfully and respectfully. Missouri has great Conservation Agents, and great hunting and fishing, and the Missouri Department of Conservation does a great job. I thank all the good agents Missouri has, that are so responsible for the quality of the Missouri outdoors, and with that I rest my case.

[bigredbirdfan]

I really don't care what anyone on this forum thinks about me. I saw what I saw and that is that. Like I said maybe you all should go volunteer at these facilities and see some of the Bull S... that goes on then come back and tell us what you saw.

Additionally, there were too many staff bumping into each other at times at the facility I was at. But then again when you need to spend your budget each year so you can justify the need...well.. you all figure it out. I am sure some of you feel they are underfunded with not enough authority right?

I'll tell you the story of my grandfather again. He took my cousin fishing when we were kids. They took one kids fishing pole and on my cousin's first cast the sinker, hook and worm went high into the tree. After my cousin not getting it out by himself he hands the pole to my grandfather who yanks and yanks on it. Great fishing experience so far right? After fighting it for a few minutes an agent walks up to him and askes him for his fishing license. He explains that he is only accompanying a child who is not required to have one. He is promply issued a ticket for fishing without a license. The line never even hit the water and he was holding a snoopy rod and reel. Now, if you don't believe this kind of crap goes on every day on verying scales and scopes I'm surprised you can manage to get your underware on with the tag on the inside. Good day.

[Phil Lilley]

How many facilities did you volunteer at? And for how long?

Additionally, there were too many staff bumping into each other at times at the facility I was at.

I don't understand this. What do you mean by bumping and why is that bad?

I have a very similar story about my grandfather... Roaring River about 1968- I think I was about 10, may be younger. I was fishing. I got bored and handed by grandfather the rod. He reeled it in- I was done fishing and he wasn't going to fish- we were leaving. He got a ticket- no license- for just reeling in the line.

Our family, myself and my grandfather laughed about the incident for years to come. No one was mad. No one holds a grudge against the agent or MDC. If my grandfather was wise and had forethought, he would have bought a license so he could help his grandson fish and not get in trouble.

Real names - I mean names of agents and MDC personnel in his accusations. Sorry, I thought that was clear. Of course I didn't mean MDC.

[brownieman]

Just a couple of points,

If everything Dablemont states is untrue why has not the MDC sued his butt off for defemation of character or some other pretense or legal bs. They don't like the accusations so it makes me wonder why they don't attempt to shut him up.

Like wrench said, remaining silent...any lawyer will tell a guilty party to say nothing. That alone reeks of corruption to me, it's like they are taking the 5th on everything. If it's all unsubstaiated why do not they step up and defend themselves, just doesn't make sense.

I will be curious to see if these meetings Dablemont has will shed some proof by retired or ex-employees...maybe some will produce such evidence. I suspect there are some memo's and pictures floating around out there but the ones who have them fear reprocusion at the hands of the dept. There is strength in numbers so I for one will be very curious to see how it all pans out.

Time will tell...if either side is hiding anything or talking bs I hope they are put on the mat for it.

[fishinwrench]

Real names - I mean names of agents and MDC personnel in his accusations. Sorry, I thought that was clear. Of course I didn't mean MDC.

I knew that is what you meant.... agent error and ethic issues are small potatoes though. Dablemont has clearly accused the MDC upper level of corruption and cover-ups'....and that is where I was going with that.

If someone openly and publicly accused me, or my business of something that was ludicris and totally untrue.....I would openly and personally respond. Why are they not saying anything to show that they care about what a group of citizen/taxpayers/sportsmen are being led to think ? The lack of comment doesn't look good right now, but maybe a lawsuit is pending.

[Phil Lilley]

I agree that MDC isn't forthcoming about some things. They won't participate on forums. I'm speculating on this so if I'm wrong someone correct me. Conservation Cafe used to be MDC forum. I wasn't on the forum in the beginning so I don't know for sure but I bet they found out real quick they couldn't respond to questions on a public forum so they sold or gave it away and it became just a public forum.

When I ask a question of MDC via an email, it usually takes a few days to get an answer. I know it's not because they are slow -- they make sure their answer is the correct one before answering. They usually answer with cc's to other department heads who have a vested interest in the topic whether it's enforcement or fisheries. I see how it works... they have to be careful. I appreciate their willingness to answer questions for us. I don't feel like I can demand answers although they are in a service capacity to the general public. I chose to maintain a good relationship with those I know personally, not to get "inside" information and "stay in the loop" but because I respect the friendships we have developed over the years. That doesn't mean I don't get frustrated with them sometimes. No gov't agency is perfect - I don't expect that. Heck, you'd have a huge job to clean up all the fat in gov't. When people are involved there will be improprieties.

If you want to bring change to gov't you better plan your strategy carefully. The worst thing you can do is burn bridges and I believe Dabblemont has burned way too many over the years. I say that because of what I see just here on the forum... he's rubbed alot of people the wrong way, in the public and I'm sure with MDC. I don't think it makes any difference how many thousands of "members" he gets, he's the wrong leader to bring real change to your issues.

I may be wrong here. In some ways I hope I am and Dabblemont does bring useful and constructive change to MDC in areas they probably do need change in.

I will keep an open mind and see what happens.

[bigredbirdfan]

MDC had a forum and I don't know if they still do. My friend made a few critical comments of them on there and they blocked his access from his IP address over it. How about that transparicy? They operate like the KGB.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I will be curious to see if these meetings Dablemont has will shed some proof by retired or ex-employees...maybe some will produce such evidence. I suspect there are some memo's and pictures floating around out there but the ones who have them fear reprocusion at the hands of the dept. There is strength in numbers so I for one will be very curious to see how it all pans out.

Time will tell...if either side is hiding anything or talking bs I hope they are put on the mat for it.

Well, he has been doing this for the last few years. Nothing yet. If they are retired, why not come forward? Plus we have "Whistle Blower Law" now. Anybody can come forward with damning evidence. I wonder why they don't? LD certainly has nothing to loose. Bring it out. Stop the hiding behind the word game and tell us what you have Larry.

It was said that the MDC reads this board. Maybe. I am sure there are some that do. But do they work in Jeff City? I can't say but, I have my doubts. Are they supposed to read every forum that has to do with the outdoors in Missouri? Then you would start crying that your tax money is being wasted on reading and responding to forums. This would be a no win situation for them. I wouldn't find these accusations worthy of a response anyway. Not unless more substantial evidence was produced.

Just as is claimed the MDC reads this forum, I would venture to say Larry does too. Why doesn't he respond? Nobody seems to care that he is not protecting his reputation here. Why not? Some seem to take a very vague at best bit of information and run and yell "The MDC is coming! The MDC is coming!"

[trout fanatic]

I think if we were to break this thread down into to sides with one side being conservation and the other side being political, we would find that many of us are in agreement. Most employees of the MDC are not politicians. They are conservationits, bioligists, agents and the like. Each and every one that I have had personal contact with have been for the most part professional and courteous (I have had a few occasions where I thought the agent was a little screwy but maybe just not a good day). On the other hand, politics throw a massive screw into the whole works. Budgets are totally screwy and are abused all over the place. I have seen at the federal level brand new sidewalks that have been poured dug up and re-poured simply to use up the $ in the budget. If you don't use all of this years budget-you will get less next year. Period. Get all indignant if you want but this is the way our screwy budget system works.

When I was in the military, our vehicle fleet was followed very closely. Each visit to the motor pool was tracked as were all of the repairs. Each had a $ amount that were allocated to be spent on repairs and when that amount was reached it was auctioned off. Didn't matter how old (or new) it was, how many miles (or hours) it had on it.

This is a $ world when it comes to federal and state budgets and it is rife with fraud/waste and abuse. They may seem like crooks to some of us but it has been that way for a long time and I don't see any sudden changes for the better