Canoe Question

[Chief Grey Bear]

I am in the market for a new canoe. Not necessarily brand new but, new to me. I am and have been a fiberglass man all my life. And most likely that is what I will end up with.

I have been doing research on Ram-X and like a lot of the qualities it has to offer. One thing I cannot find about it is how wears as compared to fiberglass. I know from experience that after a few years of floating over riffles, that fiberglass, though it will take many years, will eventually wear out. Does anyone know how RAM-X will compare?

Also, I have never put a hole in a canoe but, I know it can happen. In my research, I have not found any successful way to repair RAM-X if this were to happen. Has anybody here found a method that works?

Al, I know from reading, you are not a fan of Pelican or RAM-X, do you still feel that way?

CDC, You have a Pelican Colorado, or Dakota, I think they are the same they just changed the name from what I can find. How is yours doing? How is it wearing on the bottom?

I thank each and everyone of you for any and all info you can share!

[ness]

Not familiar with RAM-X. I guess it's some super tough material?

Not sure what you're really looking for in a canoe, but I'd offer the following: Look for a canoe that will paddle well for you. If you're going to be solo in it, restrict your search to solo canoes. I would suggest you avoid very wide/flat bottomed canoes that are often billed as good fishing platforms. That sense of stability is a bit of a false sense of security -- get the thing tipping, and there's no turning back beyond a point. A rounder-bottomed canoe my not feel as stable, but your margin of error is greater when you tip. Just takes a little getting used to. And a thinner profiled boat will go where you want it without as much effort on your part.

Royalex is an excellent material for Ozark canoes. It's lightweight, slippery and has some give to it. You'll slide over rocks rather than stick on them, and the hull will pop back into shape. I wrapped mine around a tree a couple years ago, and it bent into a wide-V. Snapped back, and but for a couple creases in the sides, it's fine. A more brittle material wouldn't have made it. My 16-1/2 footer weighs under 60 pounds.

We-no-nah's web site and catalogues used to have a really good discussion about canoe design and materials. Probably worth looking at that even if they're not in the running.

Edit: Just looked, go to Wenonah/resources

[Wheatenheimer]

A buddy of mine and his brother in NW Arkansas build their own canoes out of Roylex. Give Louis a call, I have yet to float in one of his boats, but knowing the perfectionist that he is, I'm sure it is top notch! Here is the link.............

www.twobrotherscanoe.com

Chief, as close a you are to the Rogers/Fayetteville area, I'm sure he'll meet ya somewhere close with a boat to look at.

Kevin

[Gavin]

Chief, I'd take a pass on that pelican unless it was free..I've paddled one before, and there is a world of difference between there boats and a quality canoes from mfgs like Old Town or a Wenonah.

If I was in the market for canoe right know, I'd go with something along these guidelines.

Tandem Length- 16 or 17'

Solo Length 14-15'

Not much rocker

No Keel

Materials-

1st Choice-Royalex for light weight and durability

2nd Choice-Old town crosslink. slightly more durable than Royalex, but a lot heavier.

Cheers.

[ness]

A buddy of mine and his brother in NW Arkansas build their own canoes out of Roylex. Give Louis a call, I have yet to float in one of his boats, but knowing the perfectionist that he is, I'm sure it is top notch! Here is the link.............

www.twobrotherscanoe.com

Chief, as close a you are to the Rogers/Fayetteville area, I'm sure he'll meet ya somewhere close with a boat to look at.

Kevin

That's interesting. Those look nearly identical to my Wenenoh. You sure they're not just hijacking the truck, and scraping off the decals?

[Fishhand]

Hey Chief, the Buffalo factory down in Jasper, AR typically sells their seconds on the cheap. They usually have some type of minor defect. Mine has a slight buckle by the gunwale but it doesn't effect the performance and for the savings it was some of the best money I've ever spent....16'Royalex...great for tandem or spin it around and utilize it as a solo....it's the perfect boat for out waters round here IMO.

[Wheatenheimer]

That's interesting. Those look nearly identical to my Wenenoh. You sure they're not just hijacking the truck, and scraping off the decals?

Hehe......that's too funny! I'll ask my buddy about that!

[ColdWaterFshr]

Chief,

Don't do the Ram-X or even fiberglass. You're setting yourself up for disappointment.

I'm sure there are plenty of happy Ram-X owners out there, or fiberglass canoe owners. But they don't use their boats regularly, at least not on Ozark streams. I've seen both in action, and it isn't pretty. Ram-X is the Huffy of mountain bikes. Yes, you can peddle it up a moderate paved hill.

Fiberglass boats are just fine as lake or flat-water boats, but rocks will destroy them very quickly.

Ness and Gavin offer good advice.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Thanks for all the info guy's.

This canoe will actually be my fourth in 30 years of floating Ozark streams. The first one was stolen after only about 4 years of use. The second lasted about 5 years when it was loaned out and got wrapped around a tree when they capsized. The third one my father is still using after 20 years of floating without one patch on it. All of these were fiberglass and that is one reason I am pretty much sold on that type.

I will be checking in with those fellas down in Garfield though. I may end up going that route. I am just not sold on those material types due soley to the fact that it is practically impossible to patch or fix worn spots. From what I can tell in my research so far.

[Al Agnew]

Chief, there are so many drawbacks to Ram-X that it's ONLY good point is that it is cheap! It's heavy. It's flimsy, which is why most of the Colemans and such have internal aluminum bracing...the material isn't stiff enough to hold it's own shape. You're also right that it isn't easily repairable. And it cannot be formed into efficient paddling designs.

Fiberglass--it really isn't as bad a material for Ozark streams as some would expect. I've owned a fiberglass solo for many years. I don't use it a lot, just a few times a year, but I don't baby it at all. The stems are pretty worn, gel coat is gone there and it's well down into the fiberglass weave, but the thing still floats. And you're right that fiberglass is repairable. As far as pure durability on Ozark streams goes, fiberglass is a little less durable than Royalex, but not much...unless, as Ness noted, you wrap the thing around a rock or log, then it's totally destroyed, while Royalex will pop back into shape. Also, it you drop it on a rock, it'll punch a hole with a spiderweb of cracks around it on fiberglass, while it'll just dent Royalex. The thing I like least about fiberglass as a fishing platform is that it is noisy. But I owned another fiberglass tandem at one time, and it was okay for Ozark streams as well.

Royalex is also my material of choice. It IS repairable. You can get Royalex repair kits, but I usually just repair mine with a good two part epoxy. What will usually happen is that you'll wear the outer vinyl coat off at the stems. Royalex is a five layer sandwich--Vinyl color coat on outside, then ABS plastic, then a foamy material in the middle, then ABS, then vinyl. As long as the foamy material in the middle isn't exposed you're usually okay, although the ABS substrate is somewhat susceptible to UV damage, and you want to cover it up if a large area is exposed. I use JB weld, which is a little ugly but covers and protects. All you have to do is rough up the area a bit with sandpaper and then slather on the epoxy, and before it's fully cured you can take a wet cloth and smooth it out. It isn't permanent but it will last a year or more before needing to be redone. You can also just put skid plates on the stems, which IS a permanent repair and protection but adds some weight and affects paddling performance.

About Buffalo canoes...they are a bit heavier than some of the other Royalex canoes, but apparently also very durable--the heavier the Royalex layup, the more durable it is. The only other thing I don't like about the Buffalo canoes is that their ends stick up pretty high, so they'd be a little worse in the wind. They are pretty all-purpose in hull shape, not real good at anything but not real bad at anything, either.

So if you just love fiberglass you're not totally wrong in choosing it. But I think Royalex is better. The Old Town poly or crosslink or whatever is similar to Royalex, but somewhat more difficult to repair and considerably heavier--but it's cheaper.

For a tandem canoe--first choice for me is the Old Town Penobscot 16. Mohawk Nova 16 is pretty good. Wenonah Spirit II is good. If you're interested in a solo, you absolutely can't go wrong with the Wenonah Vagabond.