Update Jones And Jenkins Creek

[Chief Grey Bear]

Thanks for posting that Poke'Em. I was just talking with Buzz and KC about that very subject the other day. I told them that in all the research I had done on this subject, I had never read anything about a waterway having to be deemed by a court. I had never read that until it was posted here.

I could not see a court spending the time or money going over every waterway in a state for this purpose.

In all of the information I looked at regarding federal "rules of engagement", it all looked to me, to be if it had water and it had fish, you had right to be on that water way. There were 100's of cases and ruling to pour over. I guess in the end ya pay your money, ya take your chances.

[shadman]

Thanks for posting that Poke'Em. I was just talking with Buzz and KC about that very subject the other day. I told them that in all the research I had done on this subject, I had never read anything about a waterway having to be deemed by a court. I had never read that until it was posted here.

I could not see a court spending the time or money going over every waterway in a state for this purpose.

In all of the information I looked at regarding federal "rules of engagement", it all looked to me, to be if it had water and it had fish, you had right to be on that water way. There were 100's of cases and ruling to pour over. I guess in the end ya pay your money, ya take your chances.

Jasper county agent for MDC was the one who told me that it had to go to a state court in order for a judge to have the authority to "declare a stream"

[shadman]

So, tie goes to the runner??????

That with what Al said is not too encouraging. What about Center Creek? It appears that is has been deemed a navigable stream. Not sure what that cost!!!

I'm not sure, but I will check Newton County to see if Shoal Creek has been tagged as a navigable stream. I assume it has since the MDC has so many access's available.

Point is, this whole subject is just ridiculous. Why do we as citizens have to pay as much as $100,000 ( in lawyer fees ) to go all of the way to the State Supreme court to get a stream deemed navigable? It is absolutely unbelievable that an obviously float able Missouri waterway can be held to such antiquated and untested rulings. ( By untested I mean that I and most people can't afford to do it. )

We have only to pay the fines and find another place to fish.

By the way, what would have happened if they had been in a canoe and never touched the bottom of the creek? Most of the complaints seem to come from people touching the bottom of the creek. Granted, this is what happened in this instance. This property owner probably wouldn't even have seen them float through.

Anyway, I tend to lean to fighting the establishment. Just me.

Good luck. If I had the cash to take it on I definitely would throw it their way.

Buzz

Local streams that have been deemed public are Shoal Creek, Spring River, and Center Creek... thats it,, if ya head south towards pineville alot of those have been deemed public as well but around here ya just got 3.

[fishinwrench]

Couple of questions, just cuz I want to see how y'all think and feel:

1. Many stream/creek/river(s) in the state have "MDC sponsored") "Stream Teams" assigned to them. MDC is obviously sponsoring "stream teams" on streams (and stream sections) that have not yet been "deemed" public waterways.

Is this considered "ok" ? And if so... Why and How ?

2. Are the main tributarys of Missouri's impoundments (Lake Ozark, Truman, Stockton, Pomme de Terre, Table Rock, Mark Twain, ect.) considered public waterways ? If not...Why not ?

3. Are Landowners who call a sizable stream "their own" and "private property" held legally responsable for the effects they may cause downstream (past their property line) by dumping trash, dead livestock, poultry waste or other impuritys ?

And wouldn't "deeming" all permanent rivers and streams as "public waterways" be a good move towards keeping such things in check ? (in other words... wouldn't it be an environmentally friendly thing for all states to put into effect immediately ?)

[shadman]

Couple of questions, just cuz I want to see how y'all think and feel:

1. Many stream/creek/river(s) in the state have "MDC sponsored") "Stream Teams" assigned to them. MDC is obviously sponsoring "stream teams" on streams (and stream sections) that have not yet been "deemed" public waterways.

Is this considered "ok" ? And if so... Why and How ?

2. Are the main tributarys of Missouri's impoundments (Lake Ozark, Truman, Stockton, Pomme de Terre, Table Rock, Mark Twain, ect.) considered public waterways ? If not...Why not ?

3. Are Landowners who call a sizable stream "their own" and "private property" held legally responsable for the effects they may cause downstream (past their property line) by dumping trash, dead livestock, poultry waste or other impuritys ?

And wouldn't "deeming" all permanent rivers and streams as "public waterways" be a good move towards keeping such things in check ? (in other words... wouldn't it be an environmentally friendly thing for all states to put into effect immediately ?)

1, i checked into the Stream Team and they quite strongly advocate getting owners permission at all times before doing anything.

2. good point.. lots o loopholes there. i do know stockton is public because its a state park. i also know that on table rock land owners own part, but what part and how big? i know i have been runoff from a mean old lady for fishin her dock from my boat, u see all over the place no fishing signs on docks,, and let me tell ya,, try runnin juglines in a cove there, omg i thought a mob was gonna get me!

3.i agree with you 100% on that one,