Fun Fishing Terrestrials On Taneycomo

[Phil Lilley]

"If the bean smelled like something natural that would attract a strike, then yes, it'd be illegal. But it does not. It's a coffee bean."

I'm quoting my own post...

Didn't come out the way I wanted.

Natural - fish smell like the codes states.

Everything has a natural smell. Natural to attract fish is what it speaks to.

PS- it took an hour to post this... too many phone calls and selling fishing lisc's. I'm not keeping up today.

Good debate.

[Danoinark]

Mentioning plastics, then any fly with a hook wrapped of z wrap or the other synthetic plastic material used to wrap zebra midges or scuds appears to be illegal. Same with any plastic scud backing etc. The regs are poorly written as to what a "fly" is it appears.

[Micheal Kyle]

Yes Danno I would have to agree they are poorly written for this day in age.

It does however say no natural baits IMO I feel the coffee bean falls under that, so does a marshmello. We all know those are illegal from fall creek up. They are not written in the regs that I can find. So where would a coffe bean fall.

I might be wrong though I am thinking and writing this while I cook dinner for the family

I like raisin too:)

[Nighthawk]

I'm coming down on the side of the permissiveness of the code. MDC covers it's butt that way. Not in the code, not legal. don't Taney regs state that artificials only are permitted above fall creek? coffee beans are not artificial, but natural. why not find artificial coffee beans

[Phil Lilley]

Natural... hummm... I'd think hair, and fur would be "natural". Certainly not artificial. Feathers? Cork?

Not in the code, not legal? That covers alot of territory. Sure you want to go there?

And a bean isn't "bait".

Again- going to intention. I am fly fishing with something I'm not trying to get an advantage of because it's "natural". It's the same size and shape of a bug and it floats. It has a "natural" crack where the hook goes. It's shell is round, exactly like a beetle.

It's not "fly tying material" covered under the code? What is? I can name dozens of items in an arts and crafts shop that aren't considered "fly tying material" that could be used to tie flies and they'd be ok with MDC.

Comparing corn and marshmallows to a coffee bean isn't comparing apples to apples. Find something else that would be a closer comparison and I might relent.

Shaffer... where are you anyhow!?! Defend you fly!!

[Micheal Kyle]

Phil here are the regulations again as stated in the MDC code book for 2009

(24) Flies, lures and baits: The following are

authorized for use except where restricted in

3 CSR 10-6.415, 3 CSR 10-6.535, 3 CSR 10-

11.205, 3 CSR 10-12.135 and 3 CSR 10-

12.150.

(A) Natural and scented baits—A natural

fish food such as bait fish, crayfish, frogs

permitted as bait, grubs, insects, larvae,

worms, salmon eggs, cheese, corn and other

food substances not containing any ingredient

to stupefy, injure or kill fish. Does not

include flies or artificial lures. Includes

dough bait, putty or paste-type bait, any substance

designed to attract fish by taste or

smell and any fly, lure or bait containing or

used with such substances.

( Soft plastic bait (unscented)—Synthetic

eggs, synthetic worms, synthetic grubs and

soft plastic lures.

B Artificial lure—A lure constructed of

any material excluding soft plastic bait and

natural and scented bait as defined in (A) or

( above.

(D) Fly—An artificial lure constructed on

a single-point hook, using any material

except soft plastic bait and natural and scented

bait as defined in (A) or ( above, that is

tied, glued or otherwise permanently

attached.

I am not sure what you would find in craft shop that would be Natural most everything that I can think of is man made in arts and crafts shops except for in the candy isle. Yes the feathers would fall under natural not man made, but they are what a traditional fly is constructed of and have been used since the 1400's if you want to start studying history of fly fishing. We can create another thread for that

I guess what you are saying is since the Coffee cherry is dried to make a bean then it is legal and you know as well as the rest of us that is natural. Can you honestly say that it is not. and it it says right in regulation this"A) Natural and scented baits—A natural

fish food such as bait fish, crayfish, frogs

permitted as bait, grubs, insects, larvae,

worms, salmon eggs, cheese, corn and other

food substances not containing any ingredient

to stupefy, injure or kill fish. "

I believe that paragraph line 1-5 that will cover any food substance be it Marshmallows, Raisins, Peanuts,Corn, Green beans,Bananas,carrots, any dried fruit which I would have to say that would cover the coffee cherry which is turned into a bean. If you were to look up food substances I would reckon that all of the above would come up plus a whole lot more.

I do not wish to have to argue my case in front of a judge I talked with my attorney last night that I keep on retainer for the business and he said he would charge me double if he had to go fight for this one. Maybe you and the Taney county judge have a personal relationship that he would feel the need to laugh the MDC out of the court room.

[Gavin]

My opinion...coffee is a food substance...therefore, illegal..plenty of other effective beetle patterns to choose from...Been finding a few beetles & tons of crickets in my pool skimmer basket. lately.. Cheers.

[rangerman]

You guys are great! I don't want to say anything as I want this to keep going.

I am in law enforcement and worked closely with the agents in my county. When I asked him about this today, he laughed and shook his head. I think you guys who are using your beans are safe. But the enforcers are different from one person to the other. I am generally fairly easy going unlike all of these new baby cops I got running around to want to hammer everyone they see.

In the meantime, I will keep listening if you could PLEASE keep this going.

Please carry on,

Jason

[zander]

I personally believe that there would be minimal impact by using a coffee bean with regards to smell. Trout can small but they are responding to the shape, coloration, and perhaps the sound of it hitting the water. Whatever smell that gets through the layer of glue is insigificant. I guess we can carve our own coffee beans out of wood, but I don't see that happening very much either. Then it also should be mentioned that encased in glue and paint, how is the agent going to know that it is a coffee bean in the fly? Is there a coffee bean field test kit? Does the agent have the authority to destroy the fly in order to determine what it is constructed out of? Or would this be considered unconstitiuional seizure? The coffee bean itself is composed mainly of lignin which is also the major carbohydrate in wood. Is there a defination for wood under the wildlife code as being from the bole of a tree and not any other structure that is composed mainly of lignin?

You said keep it going, so that is what I am doing.

[Micheal Kyle]

You guys are great! I don't want to say anything as I want this to keep going.

I am in law enforcement and worked closely with the agents in my county. When I asked him about this today, he laughed and shook his head. I think you guys who are using your beans are safe. But the enforcers are different from one person to the other. I am generally fairly easy going unlike all of these new baby cops I got running around to want to hammer everyone they see.

In the meantime, I will keep listening if you could PLEASE keep this going.

Please carry on,

Jason

I have to agree with rangerman it is up to the guy writing the tickets, and as you I have worked a lot with the agents and do know this how they operate.

Like I said I contacted th regional supervisor and he said he would think it would be Illegal.

But if they allow you to fish the bean where does it stop, can we use seeds or any dried food substance.

Sounds like we might need to get some revisions of the rules and reg for the up coming years