Trout In Missouri

[ozark trout fisher]

I have finally struck a chord. Trout in Missouri just do not belong. Bring the natives back, knock ALL dams down and I would be happy. I realize this will not and cannot happen however, and have gained a little understanding that the MDC's views on trout in MO have been passed down to the anglers. I am not against catching wild trout in Missouri, but stocked trout and trout populations that persist only due to stocking are artificial and are taking area from native species such as smallmouth bass, walleye and suckers. I can personally guarantee that in the larger spring streams such as Bennett, Maramec and Roaring River, there were smallmouth bass there all year long as in the winter, the springs provide warm water and in the summer, they provide cool water. This may explain why, every winter, there are smallmouth stacked in the Suzy Hole at BSSP. Why else could you catch smallmouth bass up to the rock dam in zone 3 at RRSP? Maramec has smallmouth bass in the spring branch ALL YEAR LONG. You can catch smallmouth, including some of trophy proportions all year long on Taney, however, due to the immense size of the trout population in the upper 6 miles, they choose (I believe) to avoid this section of lake in favor of the relative solitude that the middle and lower lake provides them. Can you deny the fact that the TRD displaced walleye and smallmouth bass as the primary predator species in what is now Taney? Check out the tributaries of the Ozark streams to catch one of the prettiest native species you will ever find; the longear sunfish.

This is just an idea.... Have any of you all seen Maramec Spring in the area where there are no man-made rock dams? It is very shallow and fast in that area, hardly good winter-time habitat for smallmouth bass. Just sayin'.

Also, I agree that longear sunnies are about the prettiest fish in this state. But I have noticed that they have pretty good populations in most every trout stream I've ever fished.

[crawfly]

May they always have holding ponds for trout in Missouri!

It would be devastating for native populations otherwise.

Wanna buy a smallmouth stamp, get a daily tag, designated lure sections, fish for stocked smallmouth, etc., etc.?

C'mon! Trouts rule! Trout fishing rocks! Long live the trout fisheries and the folks that fish 'em!

[Al Agnew]

According to what I have read from Kevin Meneau MDC, Fisheries Mgmt. Biologist, that is just about the opposite from his findings. Is he the same person you went with on the electroshocking?

Ain't you boys up there about ready to have a big ol' fish fry? Lets see, if we got about 20 people to go on this....thats 20 X 12....well its a small dent but a dent none the less.

No, it wasn't Kevin that I went electroshocking with. Kevin is a friend, and he is an advocate of doing something about spotted bass in the Meramec river system. But I've had a running argument with him and other MDC people for years about the so-called habitat changes. As far as I know, they have zero data to show what kind of habitat changes there have been in the mainstream Meramec, Big, and Bourbeuse, but they "suspect" that habitat changes have favored spotted bass spread. I've been on these rivers for longer than Kevin, or as far as I know any other biologist they have, and what I have observed is NOT habitat changes favoring spotted bass.

Consider...according to what we think we know, spotted bass like water that is slower, murkier, and warmer than typical Ozark smallmouth water. You can't change a stream to make it slower (unless you dam it), that's a function of gradient. It's possible that if the rivers are staying considerably lower than they used to be, that could favor spotted bass, but at the time spots started showing up, there was zero evidence of this. We had a long drought back in the late 90s and early 2000s, but spotted bass were already well established in much of the places they are now by that point. Murkier? Definitely not. I don't know about the Bourbeuse, but the Meramec and Big River have both gotten clearer during the time I've been fishing them (Big River since 1960 or so, the Meramec since the early 1970s). As I mentioned before, this is probably because of less row-cropping in the watershed and better erosion control. Warmer? I don't think there is any kind of big difference in water temps than what there was before spotted bass entered these streams. Maybe they stayed a few degrees warmer during the aforementioned drought due to hot summer weather and low water, but again, that was AFTER the spots were well-established.

Don't get me wrong...there HAVE been habitat changes. On the middle and lower Meramec, there has been more bank erosion and some filling of pools with gravel compared to what it was like when I first started fishing it. I believe, but can't prove, that at least a part of the cause of this is damage to narrow zones along the banks due to jetboat wakes, that gives the turbulence of high water a spot to "work on". At least I KNOW that I've seen more bank erosion and movement of gravel on the Meramec since jetboats came onto the scene in the mid-1980s.

At the same time, I have seen IMPROVEMENTS in habitat on Big River. More control of the lead mine waste in the upper watershed has allowed some stretches that were once full of the tailings to at least deepen a bit. And there has certainly been no more bank erosion on the stretches of Big River that I always fished than there ever was.

As far as I know, habitat changes such as shallowing of pools and erosion of banks really doesn't favor EITHER spotted bass or smallies. And there is no doubt in my mind that many stretches of Big River that are suffering greatly from spotted bass are actually in better shape habitat-wise than they were when I was a whole lot younger.

There's also no doubt that habitat changes CAN favor spotted bass over smallmouth. The perfect example of this is lower Black River, below Clearwater Dam, which was quite clear for many miles downstream before the dam was built and was mostly smallmouth habitat for a good 40 miles below the dam, even though spotted bass are native to this river system. But the dam is strictly for flood control, and unlike the big White River lakes, the water is released off the surface of the lake. Clearwater is not really very clear, either. So the river below the dam became warmer and murkier once it was built, and now smallies are rare below the dam.

But I haven't seen anything like that kind of habitat change anywhere in the Meramec river system.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Instead of a post that some would consider being a smart azz, I will just offer this. And say there must be some data.

Since the mid-1980s, Meramec River watershed fisheries biologists have noticed something interesting. It began almost imperceptibly, but has since gained plenty of strength. In some locations, it has completely changed things; in others, things remain normal. Some anglers have noticed it, too.

What is this phenomenon? Jet boats? Success of plastic lures? No, it seems many Meramec River watershed streams have become The Spot for spots. Spotted (Kentucky) bass, that is!

Spotted bass are not native to the Meramec River basin. Fisheries biologists hadn't documented their presence until 1985 captures in the Meramec River, around Pacific, and in Big River at House Springs in 1986. Populations in the lower Meramec and Big rivers became established by 1990 and began to move upstream, into other streams, most notably-- the Bourbeuse. Today, spotted bass occur in portions of many major Meramec River watershed streams. Some streams, like Meramec, Bourbeuse, and Big rivers have spotted bass in the lower third of their lengths.

Ok, but is this a problem?

In streams where they are native, like in southeastern and southwestern Missouri, spotted bass do well, coexist with other black bass, and provide good fishing. However, in much of the Meramec River basin, spotted bass rarely seem to reach 12", grow slowly, and may compete with native smallmouth and largemouth bass. They also hybridize with smallmouth bass and now outnumber smallmouth and largemouth in lower Big and Meramec rivers. All these things add up to trouble, if you like smallmouth and largemouth fishing in Meramec watershed streams.

Under normal statewide regulations, few Meramec watershed spotted bass grow to legal harvest size. Their growth rates are slower than smallmouth and largemouth. Also, for unknown reasons, few seem to survive past eleven inches. In addition, since they grow slower than smallmouth or largemouth, they are free to reproduce longer, prior to being available for legal harvest. In other words, anglers must throw back most spotted bass they currently catch (due to the 12" length limit), which allows those fish to increase their numbers. At the same time, smallmouth and largemouth (due to faster growth) may be harvested, outside of existing special management areas, sooner than spots.

Do spots compete with native smallmouth and largemouth bass? In these locations historically, smallmouth bass were the dominate black bass and spotted bass did not exist. Now, spots are king and overall numbers of smallmouth are shrinking. Some similar trends may be appearing for largemouth in the middle Meramec River. Spotted bass diet is similar to that of smallmouth bass. So, competition for food and space could be happening.

Spotted bass hybridize with Big and Meramec River smallmouth bass and have been genetically analyzed. In some cases, the hybrids are fertile, which would allow them to breed with other fertile hybrids, smallmouth, and/or spotted bass to create who knows what. Will this continue?

What brought on this invasion of spots? Why did it change now? How far will it go? What can be done to correct the change? Good questions, unfortunately, there are not many definitive answers.

Non-native critters expand their ranges for a variety of reasons (like, accidental or purposeful stocking), but the ultimate culprit might be overall reduction in the quality and amount of smallmouth habitat. Think about Meramec River watershed streams over the last 30 years. Have you noticed any changes? More gravel, fewer deep pools and chutes? More erosion? Floodplain filling? Add impacts of urban sprawl (stormwater management, erosion, non-point pollution, etc.) and you begin to see a pattern.

Habitat loss, on a watershed basis, began when the land was settled, and timber harvested. Lack of soil erosion practices allowed the Ozarks' thin, rocky soils to flow into small streams. This gravel is now making its way through larger streams, filling deep holes along the way. Stream side trees were the next to go, destabilizing streambanks. Some farming practices and poorly treated septic systems helped to compromise water quality. Gravel dredging destabilizes channels and ruins habitat. Most recently, dumping of stormwater and other development practices increase erosion. Has the Meramec basin incurred enough of this abuse to encourage spotted bass to invade its streams? It's possible. Some say - probable.

Spotted bass movement could involve other habitat variables or be a simple function of building large populations in nearby watersheds that then spilled over into the Meramec. In any event, it seems clear that spotted bass populations began to grow in the lower Meramec and moved upstream from there.

In general, spotted bass seem to favor habitats that look like run down smallmouth habitat. Cut banks, slower currents, and downed trees all hold some smallmouth in the absence of spots. But, these seem to be prime spotted bass locations in Meramec streams, now. Since we are not sure why this spotted bass invasion is taking place, predicting how far it will go is impossible. But, most biologists think that stream reaches with good smallmouth habitat will continue to be dominated by smallmouth, while degraded habitats are ripe for spots.

What can be done? The most immediate and easier fix involves relaxing protections on spotted bass. Beginning March 1, 2002, all streams that flow into the Meramec River (including Big, Bourbeuse, Huzzah, Mineral Fork, and Courtois and their tributaries) will have a new spotted bass fishing regulation - no length limit and daily limit of twelve. In other words, MDC is saying, "Hey anglers, take some Meramec watershed spotted bass, PLEASE!" Perhaps, increased harvest will slow this spotted bass juggernaut and help ensure native smallmouth and largemouth remain the dominant black bass in the watershed.

When was the last time MDC asked anglers to harvest MORE fish?!? Well, here is your chance to help bass fishing and enjoy a meal of fish at the same time.

For this regulation to succeed, anglers must be able to identify spotted bass and be willing to harvest small ones. Spotted bass do not look like smallmouth bass, but do resemble largemouth bass. Both are green fish and have a dark horizontal stripe on their sides. However, there are several differences largemouth and spotted bass which can be easily learned including: jaw length, rows of spots, cheek scales, and tongue patch.

A largemouth's jaw extends well past the back of their eye, unlike the spotted bass' jaw which only extends to the back of the eye. Spotted bass have rows of disconnected spots along their sides, under the dark horizontal stripe. Largemouth, do not. Scales behind the eyes of largemouth bass are nearly as large as those behind the gill openings. On spots, the scales are much smaller than the ones behind the gills. Finally, all spotted bass have a small, rough tongue patch (like sandpaper). If no tongue patch exists, it is a largemouth bass. Using all these characters will ensure good identification. But, if you are unsure, you can just release the fish.

The larger, more permanent fix involves improving the habitat. That can be most appropriately handled by putting together a watershed plan to address the concerns listed previously. Throwing in a few boulders or other habitat improvement structures won't get it done. This planning process would need to involve everyone: anglers, floaters, developers, farmers, municipalities, agencies, etc.. The plan would identify the watershedÕs problems and devise solutions. Obviously, that's a much larger effort.

Spotted bass have made their move into the Meramec watershed. And they seem to have a pretty good foothold; making the Meramec and its tributaries the Spot for spots. However, anglers will be given the opportunity to help slow or reverse this trend. All anglers need to do is: learn how to identify spotted bass and warm the grease in the fry pan.

[drew03cmc]

Be thankful that you live in Kansas, Drew! I certainly am. I say this in jest because I know you are a good sport.

Laker, I am trying to convince the soon to be wife to move our a$$e$ back to MO. In Kansas, all waterways are private with NO access without permission. The only public stream accesses are at dams and parks. There are FEW conservation areas. I want to be around Springfield or Rolla, but I know that is too far from her parents. This state does not have access to its native spotted bass streams (Flint Hills), some of which reportedly rival Ozark streams in beauty. There are native smallies in a couple streams in the southeastern part of the state, most of which are private access only. Kansas is one of the streams that the landowner owns the streambed as well as the water and fish. Rivers like the Neosho which hold spots, while navigable, are private. My favorite Kansas stream is the Wakarusa below Clinton Lake. It is public in the COE owned areas, and fishes well once in awhile, but not for bass.

I lived in Missouri for 21 years and am longing to move back due to the amazing bass fishing in the creeks and rivers of central and southern Missouri. The trout in the wild creeks are just a bonus.

[hank franklin]

Instead of a post that some would consider being a smart azz, I will just offer this.

What is your point?

[Chief Grey Bear]

I don't think I was trying to make a point. I just don't want to make another post that, though is not following along the trend, is informative.

I just offered up some info from the MDC that is in contradiction of an earlier post. You make your own assumption as to the validity of the information contained within.

[Buzz]

May they always have holding ponds for trout in Missouri!

It would be devastating for native populations otherwise.

Wanna buy a smallmouth stamp, get a daily tag, designated lure sections, fish for stocked smallmouth, etc., etc.?

C'mon! Trouts rule! Trout fishing rocks! Long live the trout fisheries and the folks that fish 'em!

LOL. I like the sarcasm, assuming it is sarcasm.

I love to fish and catch trout in our great state. If not for my early experiences at R.R.S.P. I would have never started trout fishing or even picked up a fly rod.

The sad thing is that, if in some of these places that trout are stocked on a regular basis and were allowed to go back to their original state it would take more years than any of us have.

Also, if it were not for trout stocking, I would never have bothered to fish Capp's Creek. There are other species of fish in it, I have caught a couple of big largemouth but, mainly suckers will be caught if the trout stocking is slow, and there are plenty of LM and SM below in Shoal Creek anyway.

I will admit that I've fished Taney only about a half dozen times and never fished any of the other rivers other than Crane Creek and a few wild trout streams that we have found in our area.

We still have a couple of nearly untouched Smallmouth streams in S.W. MO. that can rival any in the state.

I don't see any change coming soon. And, until MDC does start stocking Smallmouth, I will just enjoy what we have and not worry too much about what it was like a couple of hundred years ago.

BTW, we actually have a couple of streams that have an over abundance of Smallmouth ( if that's possible ), to the point that it may be stunting their overall growth. Just sayin'.

Buzz

[laker67]

Laker, I am trying to convince the soon to be wife to move our a$$e$ back to MO. In Kansas, all waterways are private with NO access without permission. The only public stream accesses are at dams and parks. There are FEW conservation areas. I want to be around Springfield or Rolla, but I know that is too far from her parents. This state does not have access to its native spotted bass streams (Flint Hills), some of which reportedly rival Ozark streams in beauty. There are native smallies in a couple streams in the southeastern part of the state, most of which are private access only. Kansas is one of the streams that the landowner owns the streambed as well as the water and fish. Rivers like the Neosho which hold spots, while navigable, are private. My favorite Kansas stream is the Wakarusa below Clinton Lake. It is public in the COE owned areas, and fishes well once in awhile, but not for bass.

I lived in Missouri for 21 years and am longing to move back due to the amazing bass fishing in the creeks and rivers of central and southern Missouri. The trout in the wild creeks are just a bonus.

I hope you get to make that move. Welcome back home to missouri.

[FishinCricket]

I have finally struck a chord. Trout in Missouri just do not belong. Bring the natives back, knock ALL dams down and I would be happy. I realize this will not and cannot happen however, and have gained a little understanding that the MDC's views on trout in MO have been passed down to the anglers. I am not against catching wild trout in Missouri, but stocked trout and trout populations that persist only due to stocking are artificial and are taking area from native species such as smallmouth bass, walleye and suckers. I can personally guarantee that in the larger spring streams such as Bennett, Maramec and Roaring River, there were smallmouth bass there all year long as in the winter, the springs provide warm water and in the summer, they provide cool water. This may explain why, every winter, there are smallmouth stacked in the Suzy Hole at BSSP. Why else could you catch smallmouth bass up to the rock dam in zone 3 at RRSP? Maramec has smallmouth bass in the spring branch ALL YEAR LONG. You can catch smallmouth, including some of trophy proportions all year long on Taney, however, due to the immense size of the trout population in the upper 6 miles, they choose (I believe) to avoid this section of lake in favor of the relative solitude that the middle and lower lake provides them. Can you deny the fact that the TRD displaced walleye and smallmouth bass as the primary predator species in what is now Taney? Check out the tributaries of the Ozark streams to catch one of the prettiest native species you will ever find; the longear sunfish.

SHHHHHHHH! lol

seriously, are you gonna come and play with em too?