Other Ozark Stream Or Should I Say Smallie/spot Debate

[fishinwrench]

Spots are a sporty fish, no need to kill them like that.

Is there any real proof that killing off the Spots or Largemouth increases numbers of Smallies in any given stream ? I've heard the reasoning, but I'm just not convinced that it is the ethical thing to do.

Popcorn, comin' up....

[chub minnow]

I'd say a lot of factors go into this: Is the stream habitat well suited to smallmouth? Is the stream connected to a major nearby reservoir that will replenish the spot population? I'd say it is very stream dependent, but I do know one thing - spotted bass are very resilient and you will have a hard time eliminating them completely from any stream with a large population. In my experience they tend to occupy somewhat different areas in smalller creeks than smallmouth do. Backwater sloughs, eddies etc.

[creek wader]

Yes I threw that spot back. I let everything all go. I like to leave the stream as I've found it. As far as Spot's go... that's another subject that's been beaten to death on other posts. I'll stay out of that one. ...Wader

[fishinwrench]

Yes I threw that spot back. I let everything all go. I like to leave the stream as I've found it.

Good Man, I agree.

[405z06]

Creek Wader:

Just wanted to thank you for all the reports about your last WTD stream. My brother and I took a seine up there the other day and got into smallies by the hundreds! If anyone needs fillets, I don't think I can eat all of these in a year. Never would have thought such skinny water held so many fish. We tried again yesterday, but got skunked. Crazy...

:lol: :lol:

[ozark trout fisher]

I'd say a lot of factors go into this: Is the stream habitat well suited to smallmouth? Is the stream connected to a major nearby reservoir that will replenish the spot population? I'd say it is very stream dependent, but I do know one thing - spotted bass are very resilient and you will have a hard time eliminating them completely from any stream with a large population. In my experience they tend to occupy somewhat different areas in smalller creeks than smallmouth do. Backwater sloughs, eddies etc.

Seriously, didn't we just discuss this????

We don't need to do this again.

[GloryDaze]

Help me understand something-

You head out to fish, big water, small stream.... doesn't really matter. You are excited to come back and share the specifics of your experience with folks. You do, and then someone asks you not to share your story?? With all due respect, it's none of their business on what information you decide to divulge and what you decide to keep secret. I assume it's a public stream you are fishing??

Didn't know the fish police patrolled message boards?

[Buzz]

Call them whatever you want wader, but keep them coming. I enjoy reading your reports.

[Al Agnew]

It's like picking at a scab...you just can't resist.

Biological surveys as well as fishing experiences have shown that on the stream stretches where spotted bass are not native but are in the process of invading, they compete very directly with smallmouth. It appears that it is very close to a one to one thing...the more spotted bass, the fewer smallmouth. In my own experience, total numbers of the fish I catch on average don't change much from year to year in those sections where the spotted bass are increasing rapidly, the only change is in the ratio of smallmouth to spots. I think that's important. Stream where spots are not native and never were there before. Spots replacing smallmouth so thoroughly that it seems that for every spotted bass that gets into that stretch, there is one less smallmouth. The fewer smallmouth, the fewer BIG smallmouth. And the spots don't grow as big on average. Result--basically the loss of 250 miles of what was once excellent water for BIG smallmouth in the Meramec River system alone, replaced by a fishery for mostly small spotted bass with the population of smallmouth over 18 inches probably 10% of what it once was. I simply can't stress this enough--the LOSS, within a 25 year period, of 250 miles of PREMIER big smallmouth fisheries in one river system.

But...the real question is whether killing spotted bass is doing any good. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's simply too late, and we can never take out enough spots to make a difference and bring back some semblance of the smallmouth population that was once there. But one thing is for sure, if the spots AREN'T being taken out, the smallmouth fishery will only get worse. And we'll never know whether taking them out will help unless every angler who cares about the smallmouth kills spotted bass IN THESE STREAMS. Call it an experiment.

Maries River, Tavern Creek, Moreau River, were among the first streams where spotted bass were not native that were invaded by spots. They've been in them long enough, and been protected equally with the smallmouth long enough, that they've probably reached an equilibrium with the smallies. Maybe that's the case in the streams of the Gasconade and Meramec systems, as well, or soon will be. The "experiment" of killing spotted bass to protect and enhance smallmouth populations is only going on in the Meramec system. In that system, the biologists WANT you to kill spotted bass. It's the only way they'll know whether the experiment works. So...I believe that we should kill all the spotted bass we legally can in the Meramec River system, if for no other reason than to cooperate with that experiment. If it is then shown to be an effective strategy for protecting smallmouth populations in such streams, then it should be extended to the other streams where spots were not native.

In the streams where spotted bass ARE native, there is really little reason to advocate more harvest of spotted bass.

[FishinCricket]

It's like picking at a scab...you just can't resist.

Biological surveys as well as fishing experiences have shown that on the stream stretches where spotted bass are not native but are in the process of invading, they compete very directly with smallmouth. It appears that it is very close to a one to one thing...the more spotted bass, the fewer smallmouth. In my own experience, total numbers of the fish I catch on average don't change much from year to year in those sections where the spotted bass are increasing rapidly, the only change is in the ratio of smallmouth to spots. I think that's important. Stream where spots are not native and never were there before. Spots replacing smallmouth so thoroughly that it seems that for every spotted bass that gets into that stretch, there is one less smallmouth. The fewer smallmouth, the fewer BIG smallmouth. And the spots don't grow as big on average. Result--basically the loss of 250 miles of what was once excellent water for BIG smallmouth in the Meramec River system alone, replaced by a fishery for mostly small spotted bass with the population of smallmouth over 18 inches probably 10% of what it once was. I simply can't stress this enough--the LOSS, within a 25 year period, of 250 miles of PREMIER big smallmouth fisheries in one river system.

But...the real question is whether killing spotted bass is doing any good. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's simply too late, and we can never take out enough spots to make a difference and bring back some semblance of the smallmouth population that was once there. But one thing is for sure, if the spots AREN'T being taken out, the smallmouth fishery will only get worse. And we'll never know whether taking them out will help unless every angler who cares about the smallmouth kills spotted bass IN THESE STREAMS. Call it an experiment.

Maries River, Tavern Creek, Moreau River, were among the first streams where spotted bass were not native that were invaded by spots. They've been in them long enough, and been protected equally with the smallmouth long enough, that they've probably reached an equilibrium with the smallies. Maybe that's the case in the streams of the Gasconade and Meramec systems, as well, or soon will be. The "experiment" of killing spotted bass to protect and enhance smallmouth populations is only going on in the Meramec system. In that system, the biologists WANT you to kill spotted bass. It's the only way they'll know whether the experiment works. So...I believe that we should kill all the spotted bass we legally can in the Meramec River system, if for no other reason than to cooperate with that experiment. If it is then shown to be an effective strategy for protecting smallmouth populations in such streams, then it should be extended to the other streams where spots were not native.

In the streams where spotted bass ARE native, there is really little reason to advocate more harvest of spotted bass.

PETA hates you, don't they? lol

Good points, sir.. Glad I got to read them (again).

Wanna take a young dumb kid fishing sometime?