World Record Rainbow Controversy

[mosouthpaw]

Friend passed this link on to me.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/biotechfishing/

Here is something to debate.... I know the deer hunting community has been spiking the genepool for years.

[ekl-stl]

I am of the thought that these triploids are a different species than the "rainbow trout"... Thus this record fish should be in a classification of it's own.

Don't get me wrong, the catch is incredible. These brothers put in hard work, and have a plan to catch these monster trout.. They definetly deserve a world record for the fish...

[ozark trout fisher]

I am of the thought that these triploids are a different species than the "rainbow trout"... Thus this record fish should be in a classification of it's own.

Don't get me wrong, the catch is incredible. These brothers put in hard work, and have a plan to catch these monster trout.. They definetly deserve a world record for the fish...

I just say its a great catch, regardless of genetics.... Putting an asterick by their world record would be, to me, like saying a Florida strain bass doesn't count. I think its rainbow trout, bigger than the world record, so it should count. The exact make-up of its DNA doesn't matter to me.

[mhall02]

MDC is already at work with triploid browns (last sentence page 3 of link below):

http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/11939.pdf

I think OzarkTroutFisher's comment about the Florida strain largemouth is dead on, I would highly doubt MDC would have any qualms with a triploid brown vs a 'regular' brown as a state record. DNA testing would be required to tell the difference, are we going to drag CSI Branson into the investigation?

[laker67]

Friend passed this link on to me.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/biotechfishing/

Here is something to debate.... I know the deer hunting community has been spiking the genepool for years.

At some point these triploid rainbows and the seeforellen brown trout will dominate the record books. Michigan and New York raise the seeforellen browns because they are adapted to living in cold water lakes. They also have a longer life span than german and other strains such as missouri's sheep creek. Longer life has the potential to produce larger fish. It is just a matter of time until all of the line class world records will change. I am not sure if argentina's sea run browns are of the seaforellen strain or different altogether. Right now most of the fly rod world records come out of argentina. A 68 pound seeforellen brown was caught out of a bavarian lake a few years back. It failed IGFA requirements to be accepted as a world record. Seeforellen browns and triploid rainbows would survive in lake taneycomo. I say that missouri and other states need to get on the bandwagon or be left in the dust. As far as these strains of fish being allowed in the record books. I don't have an opion on that as yet. You have to consider that it is still a "one on one" encounter, regardless of the genetics of the fish. When an angler hooks into a monster fish, the odds are definately in the fish's favor. If the angler wins, I'm not sure you should dimish his feat of accomplishment.

[snagged in outlet 3]

I have to respectfully disagree with you a little Laker67. I know who you are and your accomplishment, but I'll wade in here.

You said "When an angler hooks into a monster fish, the odds are definitely in the fish's favor. If the angler wins, I'm not sure you should diminish his feat of accomplishment.

While I agree that a monster fish hooked on relatively light tackle, the odds favor the fish. But I used to watch ole timers at Taney, before the reg changes, haul big trout out using treble hooks, 25lb test line and globs of night crawlers. The odds were definitely in the fisherman's favor in that case.

I've heard, but can't confirm, that the brothers in this story use similar tactics of heavy line. Once hooked there is little chance of escape under those conditions.

Okay I'll take my licks now .

SIO3

[laker67]

I have to respectfully disagree with you a little Laker67. I know who you are and your accomplishment, but I'll wade in here.

You said "When an angler hooks into a monster fish, the odds are definitely in the fish's favor. If the angler wins, I'm not sure you should diminish his feat of accomplishment.

While I agree that a monster fish hooked on relatively light tackle, the odds favor the fish. But I used to watch ole timers at Taney, before the reg changes, haul big trout out using treble hooks, 25lb test line and globs of night crawlers. The odds were definitely in the fisherman's favor in that case.

I've heard, but can't confirm, that the brothers in this story use similar tactics of heavy line. Once hooked there is little chance of escape under those conditions.

Okay I'll take my licks now .

SIO3

No licks to be handed out here SIO 3. You bring up a good point. I see that your idea of "fair chase" and mine are the same. I would imagine that the other board members agree.

[Zach Beach]

I thought after first reading about the fact that this fish was a triploid rainbow it should be considered a seperate catagory. Thinking it was just like the difference between the hybrid bass is to the striper and white bass. Yes it might be of the same species but genetically different. But then reading the comment about the Florida strain bass and the Northern strain bass and how there is no distinction between the two I was undecided. Since they are not in two seperate catagories should we make a seperate catagory for this guys monster rainbow? It almost seems unfair to me, but then I think that this fish is genetically modified to grow big maybe it should be. Then there is the difference between the Florida strain(that grows larger) and the Northern strain (that is more aggressive). I am up in the air about show the record should be kept.

Anyway you look at it the fish is a giant. An impressive catch for any fisherman. I myself am jealous. Ask yourselfs how many of you out there would go fishing for them if you knew they were stocked in the lakes or rivers around Missouri, or would you not fish for them because they were GM. I just don't know if it should be considered the world record Rainbow trout, world record Rainbow trout with an asterix, or a world record Triploid Rainbow trout.

[zander]

Being a biologist, I can tell you that speciation (the act of one new species forming from a subset of an ancestral species) is a continuum and can not be sliced and diced into neat little organized pieces. Is it a species or a subspecies, blah blah blah.... Sometimes it is easy to tell yes these are two different species and other times it may be quite a bit harder. Ploidy levels are something that CAN be put into nice little pieces. Haploid (gametes), diploid (natural state of most animals), and triploid (engineered organism or natural for some tissues in plants). Ploidy simply refers to the number of chromosomes present (n) where we all have diploid or 2n. I think it (the record) needs an asterisk.

[streamcreeper]

Being a biologist, I can tell you that speciation (the act of one new species forming from a subset of an ancestral species) is a continuum and can not be sliced and diced into neat little organized pieces. Is it a species or a subspecies, blah blah blah.... Sometimes it is easy to tell yes these are two different species and other times it may be quite a bit harder. Ploidy levels are something that CAN be put into nice little pieces. Haploid (gametes), diploid (natural state of most animals), and triploid (engineered organism or natural for some tissues in plants). Ploidy simply refers to the number of chromosomes present (n) where we all have diploid or 2n. I think it (the record) needs an asterisk.

yeah what he said