Old Man River

[eric1978]

Well there is certainly some credibility behind your views. I think we can all recognize the picture you paint. We’ve all seen the local poor white trash ignorant beer drinking hillbillies do their thing. I don’t like it any more than you but before we become too self righteous and adopt the better than tho attitude, lets remember least we forget that they were here first and most people who now seek to enjoy these resources are outsiders. You’ll never convince the hillbillies that they should back off and let you have full run at it. In fact these same river trash people as they have been referred to are the very same people we need to be talking to. They know where these places are, they live here and a lot of what they know has been handed down to them. The one thing I love about the river is that it does change from year to year or every few years in certain places. However some places never change and seem timeless. Old tried and true tactics that produce fish never change either. One thing that has changed around here is the lack of solitude for the local. As big developers move in building homes for the rich outsiders along creeks known for their swimming and fishing holes. The local finds himself squeezed out. Then the rich have arrested anyone who doesn’t own a home in their little community for trespassing if they dare to venture back in. The courts are all to willing to milk a fine or two out of the already poor and displaced hillbilly. No wonder they trash the place up, they hate the rich and the law. Again, like i said those you exclude will feel left out, abandoned, denied, unwelcome and unwanted. In the very same places they use to call their’s! Duh! Does anyone else get that but me? I think your fears are justified but just over imagined. And I to would like to see more people post than what do but it could be that they don’t post for fear of rejection. Let’s face it some of these guys that are on here are in the top elite of their fields and that can be intimidating to some folks. Not everyone is as out going as you and I.

I asked where people put out trotlines not because I want to put one out but because these are the types of places that will hold the kinds of fish I’m looking for. The channel, the flathead, the walleye and yes the crappie. Even the great smallmouth bass holds up in deep holes for the winter.

It is not my point here to be the poster child for why you should post and share your spots. I only wish that more people would. Some people will not share their knowledge or their spot and they have their reasons why and that’s fine but those who will share should be encouraged to do so. After all, you never know, maybe even you will learn something. How can you get to know a river without spending a small fortune, with the time and effort that goes with that, if people are not willing to be honest and share their experiences of what they caught and where?

Not sure I quite follow your logic there, Buck. The locals hate the rich and the law so they trash the place up? I think litterbugs litter because they're disgusting, thoughtless people, not because they're angry. They just have no respect for anything and don't care who it effects. Everyone has an equal right to use the rivers, whether you live right next to it or hundreds of miles away. They're public. But no one has the right to throw garbage around and ruin the natural beauty for everyone else, I don't care if they were born and raised in the dang river, it's not theirs. Just because the locals were there "first" doesn't give them any rights you and I don't have.

I don't really see the correlation between the persecuted hillbilly and abuse of the streams. You'd think the locals would want more than anyone to keep them clean, but ironically, they're usually the ones doing most the damage. Most of us who travel far and wide to visit a stream, usually make that voyage because we love the water and therefore tend to leave no trace. There are of course major exceptions, the aluminum hatch in summer being a big one. They disgust me, too, as has been noted.

There are of course many respectable locals, and some of them will have a great knowledge of their stream. I've met quite a few good people over the years who have been generally helpful. But I wouldn't expect most of those folks to be spillin' the beans about their best spots to perfect strangers. How's the saying go? Those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know...I've learned that very rarely do you get a big talker who really knows anything. So I generally expect to go out on my own or with a buddy and explore, and discover, and sweat, and turn my ankles, and find disappointment, and exhilaration, and my wallet empty, and my time spent. And I love every minute of it. It's part of the fun. It's part of angling.

I've hired guides before on a few lakes. They put you on their boat. They take you to their spot. They tell you what to use. They tell you what the fish are doing and where to cast. You catch fish. Fun? Kinda. In a way. I mean I was catching fish. But that's not angling. Angling is testing, trying, changing, adapting, learning, fixing, modifying...I just don't get it that some people don't want to put in any effort. It's all good stuff. When you land a big, pretty fish you get to look back on all your trials and tribulations and say "Ahh, I did this on my own and it was worth it." Catching that fish was only a tiny part of the project, a great part, a pay-off part, a climax. But everything you learned and all the work you put in that led you to that moment was part of it, too. A satisfying part.

[Wheatenheimer]

I have been burned by that in the past by someone I considered a friend.

So I hosted a rainbow pride day at your favorite fishing hole and you still hold a grudge? Don't you remember that I invited you as the Grand Marshall? I thought you would be honored!

[Flysmallie]

So I hosted a rainbow pride day at your favorite fishing hole and you still hold a grudge? Don't you remember that I invited you as the Grand Marshall? I thought you would be honored!

Dude I said it was someone I considered a friend. Now how could that be you .

Besides, when you told me that I needed to bring a banjo and go by the name of Ned I was a little afraid.

[eric1978]

So I hosted a rainbow pride day at your favorite fishing hole and you still hold a grudge? Don't you remember that I invited you as the Grand Marshall? I thought you would be honored!

When I hear "rainbow" and "pride" in the same sentence I get a little suspicious. Is there something you fellas feel you should share with us...???

[Wheatenheimer]

When I hear "rainbow" and "pride" in the same sentence I get a little suspicious. Is there something you fellas feel you should share with us...???

Not at all.........................You mentioned you like Bluegrass music............right?

[eric1978]

Not at all.........................You mentioned you like Bluegrass music............right?

Absolutely, especially on my way to a float driving through the country. Part of my routine is to put on Sweetheart of the Rodeo as soon as I hit Hwy 44. Gets me ready for a day in the wild.

[Buckshotdad1960]

Well Flysmallie,

You make a very compelling argument. I don’t see a way to change your mind or your distaste for those less fortunate than you. I only know that some people grow a garden to feed them selves and some people grow a garden to feed others, and if more people grew gardens to feed people there would be less hunger in the world. Perhaps once a man has eaten from your garden he would be inspired to grow his own. I wish someone would have shared a few secretes with you so you wouldn’t have had to work so hard and spend so much of your hard earned money finding the fish.

Let me make this clear, I don’t think you’re a jackass. I understand the way you feel and it’s hard to fault you on your beliefs. There’s no substitute for hard work. Even once you’ve inspired a man to plant his own garden and shown him the way it’s still up to him to do it. I’m no stranger to hard work. I’ve been paying my dues since I was a kid. I not only cut the path to get to where I was going but I cut it for others to follow me.

I have settled into the niche I like when it comes to fishing. Its only now with my pond project that I break my routine. In the spring the hard work begins to make my dreams a reality but right here and right now is where I prepare to go to work. It would have been simple for me if I could have gathered up the brood stock I need from neighboring ponds or near by streams that I fish but there simple not there to draw from. My search begins closest to home. The less distance I have to go to find what I need is just that much better off for me wouldn’t you agree? I’ll start with the Finley and the James Rivers. I have purchased a kayak and will spend next summer getting to know these rivers. And whether someone makes my work short and points me in the right direction or not, these Rivers will not hide from me for long the things I am searching for. If you want to help me then help me, if not then I will continue on alone as I have always done.

I enjoy the time wasting conversations with the guys here on the forum but hope to pick up a thing or two that I can use along the way and perhaps in return help someone else. Bad behavior, be it from those who just moved here or from those who have lived here their whole life is unacceptable and inexcusable. I share your concerns in this matter but there are a whole lot of good people out there who like you at one time were just starting out and need some hand holding from time to time. And I’ll bet that if the truth be known you have already helped someone out a time or two just by telling the experiences you have had, whether you knew it or not.

.

I’m glad to hear that you are a good father but I do have some concerns for your first born. Knowing you, he will be carrying tackle boxes, paddling boats, and swabbing the deck long before he see’s his first fishing pole! LOL Well, why should he learn what you know for free! LOL I’m just kidding!

[stone9-7=2]

Gee I can't help but think of all the Crappie you could of caught by now for your pond,if you were out fishing instead of posting for all this info.

I can't help you with info because I mainly fish Bull Shoals at night in a boat with under water lights.

Best of luck to you...

[ozark trout fisher]

Well Flysmallie,

You make a very compelling argument. I don’t see a way to change your mind or your distaste for those less fortunate than you. I only know that some people grow a garden to feed them selves and some people grow a garden to feed others, and if more people grew gardens to feed people there would be less hunger in the world. Perhaps once a man has eaten from your garden he would be inspired to grow his own. I wish someone would have shared a few secretes with you so you wouldn’t have had to work so hard and spend so much of your hard earned money finding the fish.

Let me make this clear, I don’t think you’re a jackass. I understand the way you feel and it’s hard to fault you on your beliefs. There’s no substitute for hard work. Even once you’ve inspired a man to plant his own garden and shown him the way it’s still up to him to do it. I’m no stranger to hard work. I’ve been paying my dues since I was a kid. I not only cut the path to get to where I was going but I cut it for others to follow me.

I have settled into the niche I like when it comes to fishing. Its only now with my pond project that I break my routine. In the spring the hard work begins to make my dreams a reality but right here and right now is where I prepare to go to work. It would have been simple for me if I could have gathered up the brood stock I need from neighboring ponds or near by streams that I fish but there simple not there to draw from. My search begins closest to home. The less distance I have to go to find what I need is just that much better off for me wouldn’t you agree? I’ll start with the Finley and the James Rivers. I have purchased a kayak and will spend next summer getting to know these rivers. And whether someone makes my work short and points me in the right direction or not, these Rivers will not hide from me for long the things I am searching for. If you want to help me then help me, if not then I will continue on alone as I have always done.

I enjoy the time wasting conversations with the guys here on the forum but hope to pick up a thing or two that I can use along the way and perhaps in return help someone else. Bad behavior, be it from those who just moved here or from those who have lived here their whole life is unacceptable and inexcusable. I share your concerns in this matter but there are a whole lot of good people out there who like you at one time were just starting out and need some hand holding from time to time. And I’ll bet that if the truth be known you have already helped someone out a time or two just by telling the experiences you have had, whether you knew it or not.

.

I’m glad to hear that you are a good father but I do have some concerns for your first born. Knowing you, he will be carrying tackle boxes, paddling boats, and swabbing the deck long before he see’s his first fishing pole! LOL Well, why should he learn what you know for free! LOL I’m just kidding!

I understand you opinion Buckshot... But I do not like people that trash up the Ozark streams for everyone else. Same with those who keep stringers of smallies. the exception is those who really need the fish to get by day in and day out. I understand that. But he folks that litter, or just keep stringers of smallies to stock the freezer are selfish and short sighted in my mind. I don't want fishing information from them.

If I could help you Buckshot, I would... But as I've said several times, I just don't know that area.

[Flysmallie]

Buckshot, I don't know what to say to you anymore. You have got me all wrong that's for sure. I have helped tons of people with fishing. Even the people that you would consider less fortunate. I don't consider them less fortunate, they chose their path in life, I chose mine. If they are happy, then good for them and I'm happy for them. I just wish they would clean up their act a little bit so other families could enjoy a stream access as well. I don't have a problem being around people with less than me, which isn't much by the way, I don't know how I got to be so all mighty in rich in your mind. But I would like these people to be able to talk with out everything being mf'er this and mf'er that. My wife doesn't appreciate it and my kids don't need to hear it all the time either. They hear my bad language enough as it is. I also wish that these folks could learn to go to the bathroom in some kind of privacy, but they would just rather whip it out right in front of everybody. Again something that my kids don't need to be witness to.

Wait until summer and get in your yak and you will see the crowd I'm talking about. I saw a grown man take a swing at a lady with a canoe paddle because she squirted him with water. Meanwhile the rest of the group (about 12 people) sat back and laughed. The whole time he was yelling that he was going to f-ing kill her. Let's see you explain that to your kid. Am I better than them? darn right I am. But it's not because I have more money. Are these the people that you are going to look to in helping you fill that pond?

To be honest I hope you have success with that pond. When I grew up in Oklahoma there was a small farm pond close to our house. Probably about a 5 acre pond. It had nothing in it but crappie and some very nice ones. So I think your goal is obtainable. I just don't think you will find enough of a population in the James or Finley to make it succesful. I have spent a lot of time on both of these rivers and maybe caught 4 or 5 crappie the whole time. I realize that I'm not fishing for them but I will gaurantee you this, if there were good numbers in these rivers you would see more people out fishing for them. The only crappie that I ever caught out of the Finley came out of the stream just a little below Linden. It was a nice fish at 13 inches, caught the thing on a popper. Probably was an escapee from the little lake above the bridge. The few crappie that I have caught on the James came about 100 yards downstream of the Y bridge in Galena. But that may be a little far for you.

I will tell you that is one thing that really pisses me off about you. When you first started in about this pond project several people tried to steer you in the right direction on places to catch crappie. When people in this area talk about crappie they are talking about the crappies in the lakes. Table Rock, Stockton, Pomme de Terre, Lake of the Ozarks, Truman, all great places to catch crappie. There are also good numbers in Fellows and McDaniel as well. But no, that's not good enough for you. You don't want to be put out by having to travel too far. Well if you want to catch them in any numbers you are going to have to get to one of these lakes. That's where they are at.

I do know one place that is close that used to have good numbers in it. The little lake on the Finley at Riverdale. We used to catch them there when I was in high school. Now that was 20 years ago and some things might have changed, but it's still a good looking spot. Of course nobody will let you fish there and they will usually run you off if you just stop to look at it. Maybe you should spend your efforts working with the people that control it and convince them that you could help manage it by taking some of the smakller fish out.

If you want help on the water or someone to go with you and show you some spots then let me know. I am a helpful guy and not bad company on the river. I have a canoe I can put you in the front of and show you some spots that are deep. I have no idea if there are any crappies there, but you are the crappie expert, not me. I only catch them by accident.

And don't worry about my kids, when I take them fishing it's their day to fish. And yes they get free knowledge but that's because they are spending time on the water trying to make themselves better. My oldest is a lost cause however, her life is now consumed by volleyball, band and all the other things that you deal with in high school. My yougest is 5 and she is no fishing star yet, but she loves to spend time on the water. Now my 10 year old daughter is all about it right now. You want somebody to teach you a lesson on the river, then she would be the one. Well she would be if you are looking for 12 to 15 inch spots. Don't be scared, you wouldn't be the first fishing buddy that has lost to her in a friendly battle to see who can catch the most.