I'm Really, Really Sick Of This...

[fishgypsy]

I do not think anyone in the state has documented the demise of the sucker population either.

Not to hijack the thread, and politics aside, but I really do think this would make a neat little undergrad research project. It seems like you'd only need to do some length-frequencies, species abundance, and CPUE between two similar-sized streams, one which doesn't allow gigging (Upper Current springs to mind), and one that does (Big Piney perhaps?). See if there's any significant differences in the sucker populations on those streams. I'd think it could make a fairly strong case one way or the other.

Perhaps someone in MSA could/should email a few professors at Mizzou, SEMO and Missouri State and see if there'd be any interest in conducting a study like that. Or if there's a student out there who's interested in fisheries and wants to put something on their resume' that'll really stick out, they could approach their professors.

[jdmidwest]

No.

Well you should, MO is a CCW state now and it is legal. From what I see on here, all of the accesses are full of drunken giggers. I for one feel safer carrying something, although most of the places I go, I only run across a few rude city slickers every now and then.

[jdmidwest]

Let's not let this spin off into a politics or gun rights debate either.

Just because I called the poachers worthless cowards, I was not insinuating that they were politicians too.

[ozark trout fisher]

Well you should, MO is a CCW state now and it is legal. From what I see on here, all of the accesses are full of drunken giggers. I for one feel safer carrying something, although most of the places I go, I only run across a few rude city slickers every now and then.

I'm not going to carry a gun while fishing anytime soon. I don't see the need. I don't have any use for my gun outside of deer hunting, and that's been over for a few months now. But now back to discussing the gigging problem.............It's funny how off-topic these discussions can get sometimes.

[joeD]

"You guys playing cards?" - Flounder

[Kicknbass]

I'm not doubting that Al and others have seen an occasional Gigged SMB. I personally have never encountered one while fishing, maybe that's because I'm too busy deer hunting and duck hunting in the fall to bother with fishing during the gigging season. I have seen on many occasions while trout fishing below Tablerock Dam, Bullshoals dam, Norfork Dam, or any of the Missouri trout parks is dead trout floating down the steam. Some big ones, some not so big. I see dead trout floating on "nearly every trip". This occurs due to deep hooking fish, miss handling fish, fighting fish too long and countless other reasons that increase the mortality rate of the fish. Funny thing, none of these fish have gig marks.

I don't hear an outcry to stop rod and reel fishing in these areas. Somewhat hypocritical IMO.

Unfortunately, regardless of which method that you choose, all sportsman impact the resource by injecting themselves into the equation. Giggers gig an occasional game fish. (I don't condone intentional poaching) Most do not do this intentionally. Fly flingers deep hook (I don't condone intentional deep hooking) an occasional fish, same w/ spin fisherman.

I think it is extremely selfish for one group of fisherman such as the SMA (used for example only) to lobby banning another method gigging, just to improve their sport. It's not as if the river systems are not producing SMB. The streams are full of fish. I'd love to have a larger population of large SMB, but I'm not willing to ban Gigging (or fly flinging) to catch 1 more 20 inch fish per year. Particularly when the state wide limit is 6 12" fish.

If you want to improve the size of fish in the streams, let's lobby the state to decrease the daily creel, and change the size limit to improve the number of larger fish in the streams. I like a slot limit that protects the spawning size fish. A slot limit 13" to 20" (or 22")would be great. And a 2 or 3 fish limit. This would allow you to float and fish a stream, keep a couple smaller fish to eat (they don't taste like sewage) and improve the size of the fish in the streams in general.

I practice C&R on most trips, but on occasion, I will take someone fishing that will want to have a fish fry at the end of the day. On those trips, we will keep enough sunfish and goggleye and a couple of smaller SMB to make a meal. I have a self imposed slot limit and keep only smaller legal fish releasing the larger fish. This past year, I went w/ a buddy of mine and he wanted to have a fry. The first fish that I caught was a 15+ fish. He about had a cow when I release that fish. But at the end of the day, we had enough fish for a fry and only kept a couple of SMB. He happen to catch a 15" fish at the end of the day and had no problem releasing that fish. We caught and release our limit several times that day.

My biggest pet peeve w/ the MDC is they current river isn't managed for SMB. I can't believe that the best river in the state, (The only one singled out to be a National park)isn't even on the list for consideration. The section of river in the ONSR given the SMA status is on the Jack's Fork, and is too small to float at many times of the year. I don't understand why a section of the river that is larger and more capable of sustaining a large population of larger fish isn't considered. I would like the section of river below Round Springs to the end of the park considered as a Smallmouth Bass Management Area, but its not on the MDC SMA radar.

Just my 2 cents

[Guest]

deleted

[Chief Grey Bear]

CGB if you think that was a threat from me you need to reread the post, slowly.

I read it correctly the fist time at regular speed. I think it is you that needs to do a reread. At a speed you are comfortable with.

I think this thread is dead now. It seemed to die out just like the last one a couple of weeks ago.

Isn't it interesting that these type threads will gone forever but, a thread that is about being pro-active and contributing thoughts and ideas about taking it to the next level, dies very quickly. And think we all know why.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Also, I seriously doubt that our frustration with illegal gigging has even been heard of by some on the Directors of Conservation. If anyone wants to try to bend their ears a little, I'll get involved. First, we can bring up this issue at any of the board's public meetings, and that wouldn't be a bad idea. The season is too long, and the rules are nearly impossible to enforce. I do not think anyone in the state has documented the demise of the sucker population either. If this is true, some control of gigging would seem like the sensible approach to take.

Great idea, and probably the most reasonable one.

Kicknbass I don't believe the point is degrade the sport of gigging to improve the SM fishery, but to simply stop illegal gigging of bass and trout. The MDC knows there's a problem, they just don't know what to do about it. I believe it more widespread then many think, i to have seen the bottom suddenly fall out of a smallies hole after the season opens. Any threat, I don't want a ban, to ban gigging will bring the giggers themselves into action, at least I believe it will.

[ozark trout fisher]

I think this thread is dead now. It seemed to die out just like the last one a couple of weeks ago.

Isn't it interesting that these type threads will gone forever but, a thread that is about being pro-active and contributing thoughts and ideas about taking it to the next level, dies very quickly. And think we all know why.

Look, the thread you started up was kind of jumping the gun. You were already asking what we would do if smallie regulations were changed, when in fact that is what we are working on right now. You have to take these things one step at a time, if you know what I mean.

Honestly, I think talking about gigging while we're trying to combat a whole other problem concerning smallies is more of a distraction than anything. I say that we should get back to discussing the regulations of creeling smallmouth bass, and then if we achieve something there, then we succeed with that we can see what we can do about gigging, habitat change, and all the other problems facing smallmouth and largemouth bass in Missouri. It's really only possible to take on one issue at a time, if we're going to focus any real efforts on it. Changing smallmouth regs, at least for now, also seems to be a much more winnable cause than working to ban or even limit gigging. If anyone wants to right a petition regarding smallmouth regulations, I'm still up for trying to get signatures.