denjac Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- E10 Fuel & It’s Effect Due to increasing problems caused by ethanol fuels, we are stepping up our efforts to protect your investment. We recommend replacing water separating fuel filters on Level 1 and Outboard Winterizations (call for pricing). In addition, we have done extensive research and selected the best products available to use for off-season storage. What is E10 fuel? E10 fuel is a 10% blend of ethanol and 90% blend of gasoline. Ethanol is a highly refined alcohol made from grain or plant cellulose. Ethanol is added to gasoline because of the Energy Policy Act (EPACT2005). Public law 109-058 requires the increased use of renewable motor fuels. What are the negative qualities of ethanol? 1. Ethanol is a strong cleaner (solvent). a. Cleans varnish & surface corrosion from inside tanks & fuel systems. The contaminants are then ingested by the fuel system. b. Dissolves polyester resins used to make some fiberglass tanks. c. On some older boats, fuel lines are dissolved from the inside by the ethanol. 2. Ethanol is hygroscopic (it has a strong attraction to moisture). a. Ethanol attracts moisture from the atmosphere when the fuel expands & contracts with temperature changes. b. When the percentage of water in E10 fuel reaches approximately 0.5%, the bond between the ethanol & gasoline molecules will break down and the ethanol molecules will attach to the water molecules. This is called phase separation. c. Several things happen when phase separation occurs i. The ethanol & water molecules settle to the bottom of the tank forming a distinct layer of water/ethanol on the bottom and gas without ethanol on top ii. The engine draws fuel from the bottom of the tank. The water/ethanol mixture will not burn properly, if at all, in the engine. iii. The water/ethanol mixture is highly corrosive & can lead to internal engine component damage. iv. The remaining gasoline, without ethanol, will have an octane level below the original E10 fuel’s octane level – approximately 2-3 points lower. d. Phase separation cannot be reversed. The only cure for phase separated fuel is to pump out the fuel tank & start with fresh fuel. 3. E10 fuel’s usable life span may be less than the normal length of off-season boat storage. 4. E10 fuel burns faster, hotter, and makes approximately 18% less power than gasoline without ethanol. What can you do to reduce the risk of ethanol related problems? 1. Use fuel containing no ethanol whenever possible. Some local gas stations offer higher octane fuels that do not contain ethanol. 2. Store fuel tanks approximately 7/8 full. This leaves little air space above the fuel, effectively minimizing the amount of humidity the ethanol in the fuel will absorb from the atmosphere. Storing completely full can cause some fuel spillage out the fuel vent when the fuel expands with temperature changes. 3. Change water separating fuel filters more frequently. If your boat does not have one (most older boats do not), install a 10 micron water separating fuel filter. Do not drain and re-use old filters. 4. Use a good fuel stabilizer, specifically for ethanol, all season long. It is best to add to fresh fuel when filling up. 5. Do not attempt to use fuels with ethanol content higher than 10%. * SEVERAL WEBSITES OFFER INDEPENDENT RESEARCH INFORMATION ON THIS TOPIC * Water Pump Impellers Sport Boats USA recommends changing water pump impellers at the beginning of the boating season rather than at the end. Due to the nature of the material, the impeller, when squeezed in one position without use for an extended period, tends to conform permanently to that shape as well as become brittle. Dennis Boothe Joplin Mo. For a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." ~ Winston Churchill ~
Bill Babler Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Excellent Info. Thanks. I was told by my GM dealer, that my Flex/Fuel Avalanche is capable of using E85, but the price needs to be a full .50 cents per gallon under the price of regular gas to justify the inefficency of the E85. I have lately heard that the true number is .30 cents a gal. under for it to just break even. It is strickly physics. Also the price at .25 a gal under for the E85 looks great, it is acculey less efficient and more costly than straight 87 oct. that is at that .30 cents more per gal. figure. GM figrures it at total cost at the 50 cents per gal. The 30 cents is just cost per gal of gas. http://whiteriveroutfitters.com http://whiteriverlodgebb.com
Members mudbug Posted January 31, 2010 Members Posted January 31, 2010 The subject of ethanol in fuel. Has been something that interest me for some time now. As a auto mechanic it has a direct influence on my daily life. I have been searching for a gas station that sells gas, without ethanol. Of all the ones that I have tried and tested. The only one that has consistently test ethanol free(8 times in the last 1 and ½ years). Is the Rapid Roberts at sunshine and 65 in Springfield. And only there 93 octane. As my boat is older, I use gas cans. That way I can drain them after each use. And keep the fuel fresh each time I use it.
skeeter Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 The subject of ethanol in fuel. Has been something that interest me for some time now. As a auto mechanic it has a direct influence on my daily life. I have been searching for a gas station that sells gas, without ethanol. Of all the ones that I have tried and tested. The only one that has consistently test ethanol free(8 times in the last 1 and ½ years). Is the Rapid Roberts at sunshine and 65 in Springfield. And only there 93 octane. As my boat is older, I use gas cans. That way I can drain them after each use. And keep the fuel fresh each time I use it. FYI, A local lawn and garden equipment dealer has tested the gas from Stations along Hwy. 13 from Branson West South to Kimberling City and all of them test negative for Ethanol content in their 91 to 93 Octane gasoline. Also, the Baxter Marina has no Ethanol in their gas, either 89 or 91 octane. Thankfully, gasoline sold at Marinas does not have to contain Ethanol by law.
Members Keith Gimlin Posted February 1, 2010 Members Posted February 1, 2010 The subject of ethanol in fuel. Has been something that interest me for some time now. As a auto mechanic it has a direct influence on my daily life. I have been searching for a gas station that sells gas, without ethanol. Of all the ones that I have tried and tested. The only one that has consistently test ethanol free(8 times in the last 1 and ½ years). Is the Rapid Roberts at sunshine and 65 in Springfield. And only there 93 octane. As my boat is older, I use gas cans. That way I can drain them after each use. And keep the fuel fresh each time I use it. It is becoming more frequent to find ethanol free premium unleaded at the local independent service stations. That is all I run in chainsaws, trimmers, mowers, and most importantly my boat. For cars I guess ethanol blends are,OK if it is getting used up frequently, but it still rubs me the wrong way to have a fuel source and a food supply competing for the same $$$$$$$$$$$. Plus I have seen some pretty messed up fuel lines, carbs and engines as a result of the ethanol blend. Avoid it if at all possible and save yourself some headaches
Rolan Duffield Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 A couple of years ago I was having problems with my 115 Yamaha ideling roughly and hesitating when power was applied. I took it to Sports Boats. The electrical system and cylinders checked O.K. though they did find a lot of orange sediment in both carburetors. I had them clean the system and install a 10 micron water separiting filter on the gas line to prevent the residue from getting into the carbureters. So far this has prevented any recurrence of those problems though I'm always concerned with using Ethanol in my boat and the unknown effects it causes.It's not unusual for four to six months to lapse between use of the boat. I have discussed this Ethanol issue with my son several times. (He is actively involved as a training specialist in automotive diagnostics.) I sent him the above report a couple of weeks ago and just received his reply. He adds some new information to the issue which was very interresting to me. Perhaps this opens up another can of worms though any input we receive may help prevent problems. It's a long report. Dad, Sorry for late reply regarding the ethanol content in the boat. I read the article that was posted on OzarkAnglers.com and I have a few comments on it. For the most part, the statements about ethanol's attraction to moisture and corrosive nature are correct. It is a solvent, possibly dislodging dirt in the fuel system, causing problems. It can attack older rubber lines and seals, causing fuel leaks. Most of the statements about phase separation and water absorption are worst case problems, but would most likely not be an issue during normal operation of boats, unless stored for an excessively long period of time. Most seals, hoses and the plastics used in tanks for the last 20 years or more should be compatible with such a low percentage of ethanol. Best recommendation is to make sure that the fuel stays fresh. When you are done using the boat, try to store it with a low fuel level (not 7/8 full) or empty. Therefore, next time the boat is used the tank will be full of fresh fuel and there is no need to be concerned about these fuel moisture problems. The small amount of fuel that was still remaining in the tank will be diluted so much with the fresh fuel that it should not cause any problems. I still think that fuel stabilizers are a bad idea. If your fuel is fresh, why do you need to stabilize it? Plus, aftermarket fuel additives seem to cause varnish (typically a reddish color) in the fuel system, causing flow restictions and float problems. Stick with good quality fuel (Chevron, Quicktrip, Texaco), they have detergents in them to combat the inherently dirty burning characteristics of unleaded gasoline. Avoid the Costco and Sams Club, discount type fuels. They are cheaper for a reason. They do not have any of the detergents that prevent the formation of carbon build-up in the combustion chambers and fuel systems. These higher quality fuels with detergents will also prevent the build-up of varnish on fuel pumps and fuel level senders. Statement #4 needs some correction. Ethanol does not burn faster, hotter, and make approximately 18% less power than gasoline. Ethanol burns slower and more completely over the length of the power stroke. Ethanol burns cooler than gasoline. It also burns much cleaner than gasoline, reducing emissions output. The statement that E10 fuel makes 18% less power is not accurate. Ethanol will make more power than gasoline because it has a higher octane rating, burns slower and more completely, and cooler. It has better anti-knock properties because of the higher octane. I can only guess that the statement was trying to say that E10 fuel is 18% less efficient (mpg) than gasoline. And yes, the energy content (BTU's) of ethanol (76,000 BTU's) is less than gasoline (116,000 BTU's), and the stichometric mixture is richer because of that. It takes about 1.5 gallons of 100% ethanol to equal the energy of one gallon of gasoline. So, the engine will need to burn a larger quantity of ethanol than straight gasoline to maintain the perfect burn rate. However, with 10% ethanol mixed into the unleaded, this should only effect economy 5-10%. In a modern car there is an oxygen sensor that measure the content of oxygen in the exhaust gases to determine if the air/fuel ratio is correct. The less oxygen there is, the richer the mixture. The more oxygen there is, the leaner the mixture. So, if a modern car switches from straight unleaded gasoline to an E10 fuel, the oxygen sensor will pick on a leaner mixture (5-10%), and then the Engine Control Module (ECM) will increase the duty cycle (open time) of the fuel injectors to provide more fuel for the next cycle. So, we have increased the volume of fuel used, but maintained the air/fuel ratios at the proper mixture. This engine will run properly without damage, while meeting all emissions standards. Now, most boats use a carburetor. A carburetor uses a metered restriction (jet) to tune the air/fuel ratio. The size of this jet was probably determined using straight unleaded gasoline, without any ethanol. Since a carbureted engine does not use a oxygen sensor, the carburetor does not receive any feedback about the accuracy of the air/fuel mixture. Therefore, the typical boat engine will run lean when using an E10 fuel. This can be easily corrected by increasing the jet size in the carb to compensate for the difference in the fuel energy level. I am sure that there is a growing number of marine engines that use fuel injection. However, I would be surprised if they had an oxygen sensor. The ECM just would then use a base calculation of rpm and throttle position (maybe manifold pressure to measure load) to calculate the duty cycle of the fuel injector, but would never know how accurate the mixture was. Until the government tightens the emissions standards on the marine industry, the monitoring of air/fuel ratios will just add more cost to the engines. One concern that is not discussed in the article is ethanol's corrosive nature to aluminum. Modern boat engines are made from aluminum, as are their carburetor's. In time, even the small percentage of ethanol in E10 could destroy a carburetor, eating it from the inside out. Special nickel coatings are used on aluminum parts in automotive fuel system that will come in contact with the ethanol, but I can not comment on what boat manufactures do to combat this issue. This should be main concern of E10 fuels in boats. There are not (fortunatly) any additives that can be added to reduce this characteristic. Ideally, one should close off the fuel line and run the engine out of gas before storing the boat. Or, drain the fuel from the bottom of the float bowls in the carb. Ethanol is the way of the future. It's a renewable resource. It burns much cleaner, reducing emission output and the necessity of some emission control devices needed when burning gasoline. If an engine is built with a higher compression ratio to take advantage of the anti-knock properties, efficiency can get close to that of gasoline. In time, there will be more effective ways to produce ethanol as an energy source. It does not need to come from corn. Since the availability of crude oil is limited, we need to have another source of fuel for the future. Ethanol is more expensive to buy and use than unleaded, but it is better than depleting the oil reserves and polluting the environment even more. Hope this helps.
minnowhooker Posted February 22, 2010 Posted February 22, 2010 That's good info. There are more stations in Springfield selling premium without ethanol. All the Signal stations and I think it's a Texaco at Glenstone and Seminole are the ones I know of.
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