Southwestern Missouri Smallmouth Alliance

[Kicknbass]

We have started a Chapter of the Missouri Smallmouth Alliance here in the Southwestern part of the state. We are looking for members that love to fish Smallmouths on area rivers and streams and would like to promote better Smallmouth Fishing through Conservation and stream improvements. If any of you are interested give me a heads up and we will see about getting you signed up. Send me an e-mail at glange@cebridge.net. Take a look at the MSA website and get an idea of what we are all about.

http://www.missourismallmouthalliance.org/MSA/Welcome.html

Your not looking too hard for members. When I went to your website and tried to join the forum I got 2 emails.

The first email:

Your registration request at Missouri Smallmouth Alliance has been received, Kicknbass.

Before you can login and start using the forum, your request will be reviewed and approved. When this happens, you will receive another email from this address.

Regards,

The Missouri Smallmouth Alliance Team.

The second email:

Kicknbass,

Regrettably, your application to join Missouri Smallmouth Alliance has been rejected.

Regards,

The Missouri Smallmouth Alliance Team.

Very weak. I'd look to another way to market your organization..

[drew03cmc]

Andy, It is up to the MDC to do whatever it can to protect the Native Smallmouths. The MSA will work with the MDC in whatever capacity it can to assist them in this endeavor. The Spotted Bass was introduced into those streams some 50 years ago so management will be difficult. Then also if Global warming is what it is the streams will warm and loose the Smallmouths which need cooler water.

You don't appear to have researched much on the streams in this part of the Ozarks apparently. Spotted bass are native to the Flint Hills of Kansas, and are not the invasives here that they are in the other regions of the Ozarks. It is also not out of the realm of possibility that spotted bass have migrated to the SW Ozarks. These streams all feed the Arkansas River, which not only collects the Neosho, but the Verdigris and Cottonwood, which are both full of native spotted bass. Shoal, Spring, Elk, Indian, etc are all members of this watershed as well, so migration isn't out of the realm of possibility. They are not displacing native fish. They, smallmouth and largemouth can coexist here through equilibrium reached throughout the centuries. I don't recall mentioning spotted bass however. I know that is a big talking point of the MSA, but not over here it isn't necessary as a general rule. Habitat degradation is a key for the smallmouth. Also, education is a huge factor for Neosho smallmouth bass. People as a whole are not aware that they are holding a genetically diverse species of smallmouth bass in their hands. These fish only live in a SMALL portion of the Ozarks of Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma, and as such, should be treated as a threatened or endangered species with C&R regs and what not. Global warming? You don't want my opinion on that. I just hope that you can research the species of concern in that area before beginning this meeting in April. Micropterus dolomieu velox is a unique species and I hope you give it the respect it deserves.

[Guest]

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[Chief Grey Bear]

There is no shortage of the Neosho strain. Reletivly speaking though. There is a huge shortage in the number of streams they inhabit.

With the Tenn. strain stockings that has been done in Oklahoma, I don't know that you could find a genetically pure Neosho bleow Grand Lake dam. Heck, good luck finding one in Grand Lake. Not due to genetics, they just don't like big water. That can kind of give you a picture of how small an area we are speaking of.

Only 5 counties in Missouri a couple in Oklahoma and I think very few in Ks. I think that may be mainly due to the silt loads carried by most streams over there. But I will let Andy speak for KS as he has studied and researched that area.

[Gary Lange]

You guys that have lived down here are just beating me up. I will have to do some studying I guess and learn a little more about this area. I never claimed to be an expert on Smallmouth Bass or any Bass for that matter. I just stepped up to give the MSA a hand on getting a chapter started down in this section of Missouri. I have a lot to learn I guess but for now I am going fishing.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Hey, Gary, I thought you may have info that I hadn't read or seen. That is why I asked if you could share your info. I wasn't throwing punches. But I may have to run that by Ness and eric to confirm.

[Wayne SW/MO]

rather than streams like the Niangua and what have you

Because???? What is wrong with the other streams? Obviously the MSA is interested in the Neosho, just as its interested all smallmouth streams. Andy, or whoever, before you rip someone for not doing their research, you might get your own tuned up. I don't where you're right or wrong, but some of it is certainly not aligned with others. Personally I don't really have an interest in the history of the Spotted bass in the Flint Hills, I have enough trying to stay up with whats happening here.

The Kentucky bass, as they was known in Missouri has been here as a native species, but its range was limited. The MDC, and no telling how many individuals, started moving them around. Then came the changes in stream conditions that invited them deeper into smallie areas. The fact that they take up their share of the biomass and hybridize with smallies, creates an unwanted problem. Its not that Kentucky/spots are bad in and of themselves, they simply aren't wanted in some areas. You speak of protecting the Neosho, well the spots aren't going to help that endeavor.

Chief the Fishes of Missouri mentions some stocking many years ago, whether it was 50 I can't say, don't have the book handy, or where they were. I believe I remember some were in the Sac or Pomme watersheds. They were also in LOZ which was out of their range and I assume they were put there, but I suppose that's not written in stone either. I'll dig up my book and see what he say's about the travels of the spots.

[ness]

Hey, Gary, I thought you may have info that I hadn't read or seen. That is why I asked if you could share your info. I wasn't throwing punches. But I may have to run that by Ness and eric to confirm.

Whaddya think Eric? I say we give him a pass on this one, even thought it was dayum close!

[drew03cmc]

Also, just to add, I am in support of the MSA's mission in SW MO, but I hope they can focus predominantly on the Neosho smallmouth in that part of the state, rather than streams like the Niangua and what have you. If I lived in an area where attending the meetings was a simple affair, I would join and be a very vocal member.

What are the MSA's plans to protect the Neosho smallmouth?

Because???? What is wrong with the other streams? Obviously the MSA is interested in the Neosho, just as its interested all smallmouth streams. Andy, or whoever, before you rip someone for not doing their research, you might get your own tuned up. I don't where you're right or wrong, but some of it is certainly not aligned with others. Personally I don't really have an interest in the history of the Spotted bass in the Flint Hills, I have enough trying to stay up with whats happening here.

The Kentucky bass, as they was known in Missouri has been here as a native species, but its range was limited. The MDC, and no telling how many individuals, started moving them around. Then came the changes in stream conditions that invited them deeper into smallie areas. The fact that they take up their share of the biomass and hybridize with smallies, creates an unwanted problem. Its not that Kentucky/spots are bad in and of themselves, they simply aren't wanted in some areas. You speak of protecting the Neosho, well the spots aren't going to help that endeavor.

Chief the Fishes of Missouri mentions some stocking many years ago, whether it was 50 I can't say, don't have the book handy, or where they were. I believe I remember some were in the Sac or Pomme watersheds. They were also in LOZ which was out of their range and I assume they were put there, but I suppose that's not written in stone either. I'll dig up my book and see what he say's about the travels of the spots.

Wayne, as Saluki said, the spotted bass were native to the south flowing streams of the SW ozarks, and where did they come from? The Arkansas and White River systems, which collect the streams of the Flint Hills, including streams holding native micropterus punctulatus punctulatus (also a different strain of spot). Spotted bass catch the ire of anglers on the eastern side of the Ozarks, but in the SW, the spotted bass are a worthy, native adversary.

The Niangua and its smallmouth already have the eye of MDC on them. Why not focus on the species/subspecies truly in need here. Conservation of a rare subspecies should be at the forefront of a truly conservation minded angler. C&R is the order of the day on streams where Neoshos are the only smallmouth bass species present.

[Wayne SW/MO]

The Niangua and its smallmouth already have the eye of MDC on them. Why not focus on the species/subspecies truly in need here. Conservation of a rare subspecies should be at the forefront of a truly conservation minded angler. C&R is the order of the day on streams where Neoshos are the only smallmouth bass species present.

Then I don't understand why you would have a problem with a non-profit organization that would agree with you?

As far as spots go in the east, its not the fish, but where they are that they have a problem with. They are threatening smallmouth in areas that have been free of them. The same threat to the Neosho from hybridization threatens some of the prime smallmouth areas, there and a few in this area.