More Smallie Action In River

[zipstick]

This thread is getting to be a train wreck. Here's my take on fishing off the beds for smallies. Fishing off the beds is like taking a canned hunt,you know it's going to be easy. When your young you don't know any better, but when you get older and more skilled it becomes less of a challenge. If fishing weren't a challenge to me I doubt I would be doing it. Ok, got caught up in the wreck, sorry, carry on.

Ollie,

Catching smallies in Northern lakes during the spawn is quite easy if that's your reference. Catching big smallies in Ozark Streams really isn't easy for most folks regardless of the season. It takes lots of work to become familiar with thw stretches that hold these fish. Our streams are often changing depths and colors caused by spring rains, and this makes catching them pretty challenging as well. With messed up conditions, some years we have no decent spring fishing at all, nor do we have a decent smallie spawn. I'm no youngster either, and your comparison of catching this spring bass to that of a canned hunt is laughable. I want to go with you on a river trip and just sit back and watch you catch as many as you can. If you're that good, I could learn a lot. Carry on!

I enjoy catching bass any time of the year, and again I repeat that never have I seen any sunfish around these smallies that I have caught in spring. These fish are often grouped up and somewhere in the spawning process. I'm not throwing around fry, and I don't target the smaller fish bedding alone in backwaters. If I can see 13 inch fish, what's the point of catching it? I'm not getting a thrill doing that.

Every day I fish I learn more and more about smallie habits and how to cdatch them. I am intrigued by their spring habits and their decision selecting the areas that they choose to spawn. THese fish aren't harmed one iota.

I know in retrospect how damaging the illegal gigging was this past fall and winter to one of my select areas. I'm totally convinced by the lack of big fish there this spring that 60-70% of the trophies were removed illegally in about one week's time last year when the water finally cleared up enough to gig. My evidence of trophy dead fish seen on the bottom and 7 other 13-18 inch smallies that survived their gig attack that I personally caught caught with gig marks from that same stretch points out the real villains in our streams who stuck and killed as many as two dozen 16-20 inch smallies illegally, and probably many more smaller ones.

[ollie]

I'm just saying..................

[KCRIVERRAT]

"The Guru" (zipstick) mentioned the water was low and clear. Perfect for sighting spawners I suppose? Just wondering what type of shades you were wearing to help you spot them...

Far as I'm concerned, there's no train wreck here. We all catch spawners this time of year. March through June for all warmwater species.

There are quite a few smallmouth diehards on this forum. I can speak only for myself in that I care for their welfare deeply and when I do fish for them this time of year I cast to likely looking spots just like the next stream fisherman. Simply put, I have caught a few big females and of course they quickly are released. I sure as heck ain't sight fishing though. I have enough luck summer through fall to not mess with the big girls in spring.

So go ahead Zipstick and Al... fish your five or six streams over in eastern Missouri and let us know how you do. You're surely experts on those. Could care less about Al's references to eastern streams. This is OAF. I believe there's a few of us here that could teach you guys a thing or two about our favorite waters.

And Al... just my opinion, but you're a little long winded. Smart... but long winded.

[Kicknbass]

Zip keep catching, and Al, keep writing. I enjoy your posts. (Al, go a little easier on the giggers please) Some of the poster in this forum can be nuts, don't be discouraged.

[Outside Bend]

Alright, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a moment:

I enjoy catching bass any time of the year, and again I repeat that never have I seen any sunfish around these smallies that I have caught in spring. These fish are often grouped up and somewhere in the spawning process. I'm not throwing around fry, and I don't target the smaller fish bedding alone in backwaters. If I can see 13 inch fish, what's the point of catching it? I'm not getting a thrill doing that.

Every day I fish I learn more and more about smallie habits and how to cdatch them. I am intrigued by their spring habits and their decision selecting the areas that they choose to spawn. THese fish aren't harmed one iota.

To play the devil's advocate: I see the point a lot of these guys are trying to make (maybe it's already been elaborated in other threads-my eyes glazed over somewhere on page 3).

You're targeting the biggest fish at their most vulnerable life stage. The fish which produce the greatest volume of eggs. The fish which have the body mass to defend their nest from predators. The fish which obviously have the genetic potential and evolutionary fitness to reach trophy sizes, and the fish which are most likely to pass those genetics on to their offspring. If you're a conservation-minded angler interested in increasing trophy smallmouth production in the state, why harass those fish while they're spawning? Seems like you'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

You may not see any longears around the beds, but I'd be willing to bet there's a big handful within eyeshot. They're the most abundant sunfish in most Ozark streams in terms of numbers and biomass, and aside from headwater streams, it's unlikely they're not around. Even if they were, there's plenty of other egg predators- sculpins, crayfish, darters, shiners, dragonfly larvae, and myriad others. Point is, when you rip a fish off it's nest, you're giving some predator the ability to get in there and muck things up. That can be absolutely prevented simply by not targeting fish on their beds.

It's not necessarily true that, once you release a fish, everything's hunky-dory. It can take hours, even days, for a fish to resume normal activity. At spawning time, when fish are already allocating a ton of energy to egg production, nest construction, and defense of the nest, and generally not eating a whole lot, that can really push them to their limits. Introduce angling pressure, increased stress, and damage to their bodies/slime coat, and that's yet another source of stress which can be prevented.

Is it as detrimental as floods or gravel mining or livestock in streams? No. Is it as detrimental as giggers targeting trophy fish? Arguably not. In a great year class it probably makes no difference; but in an awful one, I'd be pretty concerned about someone ripping 20,30, 50 fish off their nests, multiplied by however many folks are doing it a week. They just don't necessarily need that pressure, is all I'm getting at.

I'm intrigued by fish behavior too, but there's a difference between that and feeling the need to catch all or the biggest of them. The first weekend I was out here I accidentally happened on a pod of spawning fish, a couple dozen pairs in a skinny little side channel. At first I didn't really get it- tons of fish in a skinny, vulnerable area, apparently just hanging out and doing nothing. The redds I'm used to stand out like a beacon- the exposed chert having not been colonized by algae. Here they're just a lighter shade of dark gray, occasionally speckled by red and green pebbles.

I could've launched a big white streamer through there and caught a half dozen, all big, brightly colored rainbows and cutts. Instead I just sat down on the bar and watched- fish making nests, fish spawning, big males sorting themselves out from smaller ones, finding the best gravel with the best flows and oxygenation. In a way it sort of made that trip; being able to get a glimpse of a world I'll never wholly understand.

I guess my point is: appreciating a resource and exploiting a resource are two things, similar, but different. I'm not going to lecture anyone on ethics or etiquette, but maybe just get people thinking. Perhaps someone should do a "What do you value in the Outdoors?" thread...it'd be at least as interesting as a poll on your favorite fly or line.

I'll get off my soap box now, good night!

[Chief Grey Bear]

One thing that I would like to add for those of you that want to lessen you chances of catching a nesting brownie, toss a crankbait or spinnerbait in the spring. Stay away from your slow, bottom bouncing baits like jigs and such.

If you are fishing a with, say a jig with craw trailer, or any such type biat or plastic worm, these will be precieved by the bass as a nest raider and attacked as such. But your cranks or other fast swimming bait will not get much more than a second glance from a bass guarding a nest. It will not chase your bait.

Its no secret to those that fish with me that I am a fan of the crankbait on creeks and rivers. And even more so in the spring. I like fishing a jig with craw trailer and I love a 6" plastic worm on smaller creeks. But I won't fish them in the spring just for this reason. But come late June, watch out!

[zipstick]

One thing that I would like to add for those of you that want to lessen you chances of catching a nesting brownie, toss a crankbait or spinnerbait in the spring. Stay away from your slow, bottom bouncing baits like jigs and such.

If you are fishing a with, say a jig with craw trailer, or any such type biat or plastic worm, these will be precieved by the bass as a nest raider and attacked as such. But your cranks or other fast swimming bait will not get much more than a second glance from a bass guarding a nest. It will not chase your bait.

Its no secret to those that fish with me that I am a fan of the crankbait on creeks and rivers. And even more so in the spring. I like fishing a jig with craw trailer and I love a 6" plastic worm on smaller creeks. But I won't fish them in the spring just for this reason. But come late June, watch out!

Better be careful with that spinnerbait! I've caught some real good ones doing that in spring from "bedroom areas." And for those who are still gnashing their teeth about sight fishing these bass. Repeating, I don't see these fish before casting to them. It's not like a typical lake situation where that is a common thing (and legal) with no closed season in MO. The fact is tht I've caught spring bass (probably spawning) from some of the same areas for several years, and the population of smallies remains strong there through the following summer. It's the late fall which can greatly raise the mortality rate of many big Ozark bass. Gigging. I'm not giving up on this thread, just getting tired of it. By the way, the large majority of big smallies that I catch come between Thanksgiving and March, not spring. I often fish 2-3 times a week in winter which is big fish time.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Better be careful with that spinnerbait! I've caught some real good ones doing that in spring from "bedroom areas."

I am sure you do. But if you will keep a steady retrieve and not a stop and go or bouncing off of the bottom type retrieve, you will greatly reduce your chances of catching a nesting brownie. Or you can just hold out until after the prime spawning time before you use a spinner bait. Of course the best thing to do is, when you locate one of these "bedroom areas", simply move on. Skip over it and move on.

[Outside Bend]

Better be careful with that spinnerbait! I've caught some real good ones doing that in spring from "bedroom areas." And for those who are still gnashing their teeth about sight fishing these bass. Repeating, I don't see these fish before casting to them. It's not like a typical lake situation where that is a common thing (and legal) with no closed season in MO. The fact is tht I've caught spring bass (probably spawning) from some of the same areas for several years, and the population of smallies remains strong there through the following summer. It's the late fall which can greatly raise the mortality rate of many big Ozark bass. Gigging. I'm not giving up on this thread, just getting tired of it. By the way, the large majority of big smallies that I catch come between Thanksgiving and March, not spring. I often fish 2-3 times a week in winter which is big fish time.

You're not earning all this ire because you sight fish for spawners Zipstick. You're getting it because you're intentionally targeting spawners, period. You said as much in your first post, that you use a topwater plug to locate the bass, then have the guest/client toss a soft plastic lure in their bedding area. Sounds pretty intentional to me, and I have to admit- it's something I don't agree with, regardless of what impact it has on the fishery. That's just my opinion, though.

As for the whole "bedroom," thing..to me it just sounds like a euphemism for "nest," seeing as how territorial spawners such as smallies aren't going to be moving very far from their nests during this time of year.

Again, just my thoughts.

[ollie]

Outside Bend, you said it more tactful than I could have. Thanks