Smallmouth Regs

[Gavin]

Ahh...The "confusion" argument...That always seems to come up as an argument against regulatory change.....I'm sure their will be some mis-identification, ignorance, and confusion but that isnt anything new.

Frankly, I think that the "confusion" argument is a fallacy of consequence....Folks will be too dumb to figure it out, might get a ticket, etc... I truly have the belief that most folks will figure it out and I'm not worried about the folks who cant or wont. Cheers.

[Trout Commander]

Ahh...The "confusion" argument...That always seems to come up as an argument against regulatory change.....I'm sure their will be some mis-identification, ignorance, and confusion but that isnt anything new. Frankly, I think that the "confusion" argument is a fallacy of consequence....Folks will be too dumb to figure it out, might get a ticket, etc... I truly have the belief that most folks will figure it out and I'm not worried about the folks who cant or wont. Cheers.

Sorry, I didn't intend it as an argument against regulatory change, I am all for it. Just saying that it could be a slight issue once implemented. Post some pictorial signage and ticket those who plead ignorance and call it a day.

[Outside Bend]

I have to agree about the misidentification issue; I think it's generally overstated.

If you're going to creel fish without positively knowing their identification, and get busted for it...that's no one's fault but your own.

[Gavin]

No need for apology..Guess I should have added a couple smiley faces or something.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Chief, I think your latest idea allows too much overall bass harvest, but I can see leaving both largemouth and spots out of the slot limits.

Chief, I think that the slot you would impose would be adequate, but not ideal. Largemouth seem to be somewhat scarce in some of the rivers/creeks that I fish, so i would implement a 14-20 creel for smallies 3 per day, as well as a 3 fish 14 inch minimum for LMB's. In the areas where spotted bass are native(SW MO, current, st francis, eleven point, castor river, etc.) 4 fish 12 inch minimum. Where they are not native-no size limit, and no possession limit.

On paper, Al, that would appear to be correct. But in the field, not so much. As siusaluki states, it is not ideal, but I am not sure we can develop an idea regulation to cover the all of the unimpounded smallmouth waters without making it very complex and probably not very likely to be adopted by the MDC.

The concern about total daily bass harvest is a valid point. I have couple reason/thoughts to the reason I thought a seperate creel limit would work better than a single combined creel. One reason I don't see it as much of a concern for two seperate creels is that in the areas of large populations of small smallmouth bass, generally are not inhabited by largemouth and spots in great numbers. Sometimes not at all. Most of the areas that I have found that contain these concentrations are more in the upper watersheds of steams. And as you move down stream to the flatter, slower water, the populations seem to be more in control and therefore, one would be much less likely to creel a limit of 4 smallmouth from the bottom of the slot in addition to a creel of largemouth/spot bass.

Another reason I thought it might be ok is that if there is an abundance of the smaller smallmouth in the same area of largemouth/spots, then they probably need some thinning too. This slot is nothing more than a mangagement tool. If it was to be implemented, I think it should be evaluated at least every 5 years. If there is a dramatic drop in the smallmouth populations on the bottom of the slot, then it should be suspended. If it appears to be working, well then we can all be happy.

Well all of us except OTF.

I have to agree with eric on the id of our bass. But remember, what I am purposing is a sperate creel of smallmouth and largemouth/spot. It wouldn't really matter if you couldn't tell the difference in a LMB or a Spot. As long as you can count and read a ruler. If you can't do that, you shouldn't....be fishing! You should be in school!

[Al Agnew]

About misidentification...sometimes it's hard for me to understand why people can't identify spotted bass vs. largemouth. I've been catching both species all my life, and to me they look entirely different. I can almost always tell which species it is long before I get it into my hand. I just figured every bass angler with some experience catching both species can just as easily tell the difference. But a few years ago at a Smallmouth Alliance "spotted bass round-up" on the Bourbeuse, I got a bit of an eye opener when at least two members brought undersized largemouth to the evening fish fry because they thought they were spotted bass. Why? The only thing they used to make the identification was the patch of teeth on the tongue, which spotted bass always have. Unfortunately, at least 20% of largemouth also have a tooth patch. It's not as rough (the teeth are not as long) as on spotted bass, but it's obviously there.

It seems to me that some anglers are simply unable to make the small visual distinctions that it takes to tell spots from largemouth at a glance, especially the distinctions in coloration and markings. But there are a few other ways to tell them apart that don't rely on color and are almost foolproof. Problem is that most anglers need to be shown the difference in the connection between spiny and soft dorsal fin, the size of the cheek scales, and the size of the upper jaw in relation to the eye. Which means that it takes REALLY good pictures, or holding both fish in their hands and having somebody show them.

On the other hand, if duck hunters have to learn to tell the species apart while they are flying past at full speed, surely anglers can learn to tell what a fish is that they are holding in their hand. And what it will all boil down to is, if you don't feel like you can tell the difference, don't keep it. I believe that MOST anglers who are at all serious about it will learn to tell the difference if it's important to them...in other words, if they plan to keep fish. As for the kids and casual anglers, they usually have a lot bigger problems than telling the fish apart--they usually don't have a clue about the limits anyway. And while it is never a good thing when somebody breaks the rules through ignorance, those people probably don't have nearly as much impact on the resource as the legal or illegal experienced angler who knows how to catch fish.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Our streams, unlike our lakes, offer access to most of the fish population with no equipment or investment of any size. The result is you see a much more diverse group of people, many of whom are there for fish to take home. These people don't pay a lot of attention to rules and regulations unless they are reminded streamside. If they don't understand a slot limit, or know the difference between a largemouth and a smallmouth, or carry a ruler, then the regulation most likely only affect C&R fisherman and be ignored by those who bank fish or wade for fillets.

If regulations aren't simple, clear, and easy they'll be ignored.