Maybe I'm Just A Little Behind But What Is This?

[FishinCricket]

(grabs his fishing pole and backs out slowly)

[Guest P. owensby]

(grabs his fishing pole and backs out slowly)

You throw the discs Cricket? Where is their a course down there?

[Chief Grey Bear]

WOW. WWJD?

Some so called devout Christians aren't sounding very Christian like.

You better fly the straight and narrow there eric. Looks like if you don't it may get violent. Not far removed from the Mid East.

Like Criket, I think I shall back away. I certainally see no reason to force my beliefs or thoughts on any other human. And appearanlty you can't discuss them either if they are not in line with certain others.

[Phil Lilley]

This is one of those times where I'm in a quandary to what to do. This discussion has been civil up to now and those of you that have been down this road before on the forum, I congratulate you on your responses. They've been respectful. But if goes down the road of personal, directed statements about "the good, the bad and the ugly" . . . then we best go back to fishing and end this topic.

WDJD? He loves Eric.

[Guest P. owensby]

WOW. WWJD?

Some so called devout Christians aren't sounding very Christian like.

You better fly the straight and narrow there eric. Looks like if you don't it may get violent. Not far removed from the Mid East.

Like Criket, I think I shall back away. I certainally see no reason to force my beliefs or thoughts on any other human. And appearanlty you can't discuss them either if they are not in line with certain others.

Ohh, the evil Christian comes out swinging. If you read the E-mail carefully, you would have the read the part where I said WE ARE ALL entitled to follow or not to follow a higher calling (that includes religions other than Christianity) but in this pop-culture climate we live in now, it is much more in vogue (I know that is a big word for non-city folk) to slam religion than it is to embrace it. And Chief, yes you are correct, the Midwest is a hotbed for terriorist activity and it is all the bombvest wearing Chistians such as mysllf that are resposible for making this like the Middle East right? Ahh beware of the evil Christians that stand for principle's in the continous face of the people that don't believe or that dare to defend what they belive in... Not to sound like Gavin, but Cheers!!!!

[Carp E Diem]

a little off topic. I have never been able to explain existence, and neither has anyone else (adequately), in the absense of God. The fact that things ARE, that awareness exists, if you get down to the root of it, cannot be explained. Something in us looks for meaning, looks for explainations. Human knowledge can give us as far as this is made up of this, and this happens because of these physical events, but cannot give meaning or purpose to any of it. And cannot explain how it exists. Even if I can somehow believe that all matter exploded out of one tiny little void, I cannot explain the impetus or the stimulus that caused it to be so. It take more faith for me not to believe in God.

This applies only to me as well. And what Trevor says is correct - we wont change each others minds. This one has the potential to make people mad, and there is little profit in it. Won't be responding again - happy fishing!

Maybe you can't explain it, but science has a pretty good idea, not a perfect one, and some questions are still unanswered, but that doesn't mean "god did it". Every time new questions arise that science can't explain right away, "god did it", until science figures it out, the "god of the gaps" theory grows weaker with every advance in science. If everything needs a beginning, where did your god come from? Why can't the matter in the universe be eternal?

Discussions like this ARE healthy whether you change someone's mind or not. It gets people to start thinking for themselves, not just accepting what they have been told.

[Guest P. owensby]

This is one of those times where I'm in a quandary to what to do. This discussion has been civil up to now and those of you that have been down this road before on the forum, I congratulate you on your responses. They've been respectful. But if goes down the road of personal, directed statements about "the good, the bad and the ugly" . . . then we best go back to fishing and end this topic.

WDJD? He loves Eric.

You think what Seize the day wrote is civil?

[Guest P. owensby]

Maybe you can't explain it, but science has a pretty good idea, not a perfect one, and some questions are still unanswered, but that doesn't mean "god did it". Every time new questions arise that science can't explain right away, "god did it", until science figures it out, the "god of the gaps" theory grows weaker with every advance in science. If everything needs a beginning, where did your god come from? Why can't the matter in the universe be eternal?

Discussions like this ARE healthy whether you change someone's mind or not. It gets people to start thinking for themselves, not just accepting what they have been told.

Yes they are, but you are the one that started to question, and launch the Secular is the only way to think phlosophy (in my opinion) and it was not until I wrote back and stirred the pot that even you started to bring up the fact that even you aren't sure, and I know this might come accross as a shock to all of you, but even THIS EVIL CHRISTIAN does not know for certain. But I'm sure we can ALL agree on this, one way or another, WE will all find out in the end...

[eric1978]

And Eric from St.Pete, you seem like a nice guy and you definetly post some very interesting E-mails, but I take offense to you're Darwinian scale, and if you think you're a ancestor of a Monkey that is fine, BUT I'M NOT, and I refuse to have a far leftest philosophy paint me in some evolutianary light to which I don't subscribe to. Oh yeah, Darwin nearly reputiated of his believes at the end of his life, just something to ponder for all the non-believers out there!!!!

WDJD? He loves Eric.

Out of respect for Phil's house, I'll leave it at this...

Owensby, didn't mean to rock your boat, Brother. Just expressing my opinion, same as you. We don't need to drop the gloves to continue this conversation...we'd be better off with a couple brewskies and a camp fire after a fine day of floating and fishing. Hope we get the chance some time. Some of my best friends are very religious. Peace.

[Carp E Diem]

OK Boy, I can't HOLD my tougue anymore. If you are equating some of the thing's that you brought up in you're essay to modern day Christians, you are even more warped than I previously thought. And since we are on the topic of believe Secular Progressive, what god do you believe in? What are the good morals that are expressed in YOU'RE religion (or lack there of)? Ohh Yeah, YOU are a secular and thus you do not believe in a God, and as a result, you're just as apt to believe that a tree is a high spiritual source as you would a man and in this case the MAN. It is one thing to not believe in a religion or a god and that is fine, but thank GOD we live in a country where we do have a choice on this topic. And, the second all of you secular's start spouting you're mouths about non-believe or that we have something wrong with us, or our thinking is flawed becuase we are Christians, you better be ready to drop the gloves (metophorically speaking of course) and be ready to be enguaged in a serious conversation my friend. To all the People of believe and that believe in any kind of higher spritual calling, it is time to respond and respond hard because the Seculars are not backing down, and I refuse to have some godless, soulless indivitual tell me who I am or what I believe is flawed or somehow I'm of less intellegence because I don't buy in to their far Left wing or Secular view of relgion. And Eric from St.Pete, you seem like a nice guy and you definetly post some very interesting E-mails, but I take offense to you're Darwinian scale, and if you think you're a ancestor of a Monkey that is fine, BUT I'M NOT, and I refuse to have a far leftest philosophy paint me in some evolutianary light to which I don't subscribe to. Oh yeah, Darwin nearly reputiated of his believes at the end of his life, just something to ponder for all the non-believers out there!!!!

I don't believe in any gods, nor do I believe in any type of spirituality. My morals come from the same place that yours do, collectively from society. You may think your morals come from the Bible, but the majority of them do not. The Bible is based on Bronze Age morals, society has come a long way since then, we now understand that all people have basic human liberties, including the right not to be enslaved, the people of the Bronze Age thought slavery was perfectly acceptable, thus the Bible condones slavery, even gives rules on how they should be treated, how much you should pay for them, who you can enslave, how hard you can beat them, and how long you can enslave them. Thank goodness you don't actually follow the "morality" of the Bible.

The reason people aren't backing down anymore, is because we can't take the abuse any longer. If religious people kept their beliefs to themselves, I would be fine with it, but for too long has religion had its foot in politics, imposing their beliefs on others. This country was NOT founded upon Christianity! Contrary to popular Christian beliefs.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

quote Thomas Jefferson

Most of the founding fathers were not Christians, they were Freemasons, and deists.

The only reason you are offended by the Darwinian scale, is because you have probably never bothered to study evolution. Evolution, change over time, is a FACT! It is not "just a theory". Science does not use the word theory the way you think it does, it does not mean hypothesis. Gravity is a theory, heliocentricity is a theory. All branches of science unanimously agree with the Theory of Evolution. Common ignorant misconception: we are decended from monkeys, not true, we have a common ancestor.

Christians love stories about death bed confessions, the vast majority of them are just not true. Even if they were all true, they are absolutely irrelevant, completely meaningless, and have no bearing on whether or not the theory of Evolution is true. A very large number of Christians accept the fact of Evolution, Christianity and Evolution are not mutually exclusive in everyones eyes.