Judge Throws Out Missouri Some Hunting Regulations

[Trevor K]

It depends on who you are asking on whether or not there is an over abundance of deer. I'm sure if you ask a farmer or insurance agent they will say there are too many. If you ask some hunters they will say the opposite. I grew up in northern Missouri. I've never lived in Southern MO or the ozarks, but I know people who do. I would guess that deer numbers are definately higher in the northern half for exactly the reasons that ozark trout fisher stated. That rugged country just can't support the same number of deer as some other parts of the state.

I would be pretty disappointed if MDC didn't try to fight this ruling. If they are going to let this slide, then what is next?

[Wayne SW/MO]

All the speculation is great, but unfortunately a quick glance at this map shows that the wildest parts of the Ozarks do just fine in producing deer.

LINK>2009 Deer harvest by county

[jdmidwest]

There are plenty of deer in those parts, just the size is smaller due to the lack of crops. They do well considering all of the poaching and other illegal methods that go on over there.

[ozark trout fisher]

There are plenty of deer in those parts, just the size is smaller due to the lack of crops. They do well considering all of the poaching and other illegal methods that go on over there.

But they would do better without the poaching and legal methods that go on, that's all I'm saying.

I'm not saying the deer population is in any serious danger, but it's pretty well documented by MDC studies that there are less deer in the Ozark region than Central and Northern Mo. A good part of that is habitat of course, but the deer doggers sure don't help.

[Wayne SW/MO]

The habitat isn't that bad. The more rugged areas of the Ozarks provide both food and heavy cover, but they also have many open areas for deer. Its quite a sight to walk up on a White oak with a heavy mast after a snow. The deer and turkeys make it look like it was disked. I know of an area in the west that has a Whitetail population that would make the Ozarks look like a city park, and the deer do just fine. The fact they aren't easy to find doesn't mean their numbers are low, that's a product of the terrain.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I would be pretty disappointed if MDC didn't try to fight this ruling. If they are going to let this slide, then what is next?

I don't think it is over yet. It looks as if one of these idiots has gotten busted by the MDC in a sting operation and has a felony charge against him. I am thinking that they think if they get this law changed, as they have so far, then that felony charge will be dropped. But according to an MDC person, there are other laws in the Wildlife Code that also prohibit this. So the MDC maybe taking a wait and see approach at the moment but I can assue you, wheels are turning behind the seen in case.

But I will say, I am smelling a bit rat with this judge and the worthless hunter involved.

ST. LOUIS (AP) A southeast Missouri judge has ruled that state regulations prohibiting the use of dogs and vehicles in deer hunting are so vague that they are unconstitu...tional.

Missouri Department of Conservation spokesman Joe Jerek said Friday that department lawyers are still deciding whether to appeal the ruling handed down earlier this month by Ripley County Circuit Judge Robert Smith.

Ripley County hunters Neil Turner and Bobby Shannon Jones sued in February over the regulations, which prohibit such things as hunters driving through the woods or using dogs to scare deer out into the open, or shooting deer from a car. Violations are class A misdemeanors.

The regulations are vague, overly broad, indefinite and fail to establish sufficient standards so that people of ordinary intelligence must necessarily guess at their meaning, Smith wrote in the Aug. 5 ruling.

In our area, hunting is not only for recreation but it is a part of our way of life and any infringement of this right must be constitutional, Smith wrote.

At issue are Conservation Department regulations that prohibit the use of a motor-driven air, land or water conveyances while deer hunting. The department also has a regulation stating that deer may not be hunted, pursued, taken or killed with the aid of dogs, in use or possession.

Big picture, these regulations are in place to help ensure ethical hunting and fair chase, and also, based on our scientific management, to help protect and sustain wildlife species, Jerek said.

But Daniel Moore, an attorney for Turner and Jones, said the wording confuses both hunters and the conservation agents charged with enforcing the regulations.

It left it up to the agents interpretation, and you cant have a law applied based upon the feelings of a law officer, Moore said. Where it says you cant pursue deer with the aid of a vehicle, who the hell knows what that means?

Turner was arrested and faces federal charges after a 2008 undercover investigation into illegal hunting activities, known as Operation Pulling Wool. Moore said negotiations continue with federal prosecutors and he is hopeful the case will be settled before it goes to trial.

Were not against hunting regulations, but its just not fair if you dont know whether youre in violation or not, Moore said.

Jerek said the acts prohibited by the regulations are also covered by other laws and regulations, and are still considered impermissible despite the judges ruling.

[Gavin]

Guess those poachers hired an unfrozen caveman lawyer!

[Chief Grey Bear]

Here is the line that I like"

It left it up to the agent’s interpretation, and you can’t have a law applied based upon the feelings of a law officer,” Moore said. “Where it says you can’t pursue deer with the aid of a vehicle, who the hell knows what that means?”

And the supposedly educated judge buys it!

[Trout Commander]

Where it says you can’t pursue deer with the aid of a vehicle, who the hell knows what that means?

Ooooh ooooh I do! Pick me pick me!

It means you can't pursue deer with the aid of a vehicle. Black and white. No cars, trucks, atvs, planes, trains, helicopters, submarines, buggies, bicycles or other wise.

Why can't people just follow the rules and obey the law?

[Wayne SW/MO]

I suspect that if you put that to an 8th grade class 99% would have no trouble answering it. You have to wonder if given the fact that some, if not all, county judges are running for reelection this year could have anything to do with it?