Judge Throws Out Missouri Some Hunting Regulations

[Al Agnew]

I certainly hope that MDC appeals this and the judge gets slapped down. I've been sick and tired for a long time of the good ol' boy network in those Southeastern MO Ozark counties acting like they are a law unto themselves.

[Randall]

Ooooh ooooh I do! Pick me pick me!

It means you can't pursue deer with the aid of a vehicle. Black and white. No cars, trucks, atvs, planes, trains, helicopters, submarines, buggies, bicycles or other wise.

Just to be devil's advocate, does that mean that a person who is wheelchair bound cannot hunt? I've seen people hunt from motorized wheelchairs because they cannot propel themselves in any other fashion. Should they not enjoy the privilege of hunting the same as a person who can walk?

In a similar vein, where do you draw the line at "aid"? If I take an atv to within a half-mile of my stand, could that be interpreted as taking a deer with the aid of a vehicle? What about a quarter-mile? A hundred yards? Fifty? Now, can you shoot a deer while on the vehicle where you previously intended to stop? Do you get off/out and shoot? How many steps do you take? Can you shoot a deer you saw while operating the vehicle? At what point is the animal again fair game? Is a person sitting on an atv (not yet started), about to leave, who sees and shoots a deer in violation? What about the guy who was on a "deer drive" who sits on his atv to rest then sees a deer? Is driving from home to the intended hunting destination not using a vehicle to aid in the pursuit of a deer?

If you want to go to the extreme, discing a field you plan to hunt to plant a food plot could reasonably be considered use of a vehicle to aid the pursuit of deer. Then you have the issue of driving your vehicle to pick up the deer. We would consider the last two examples permissible use of a vehicle to aid in the pursuit of deer. An overzealous game warden could decide to issue a citation and the hunter most would not consider to be in violation now risks prosecution.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I would assume that since the MDC sponors hunts for and constructs special blinds for those that are bound to wheelchairs, that they support them and their right to hunt. And I do too.

If you want to go to the extreme, discing a field you plan to hunt to plant a food plot could reasonably be considered use of a vehicle to aid the pursuit of deer. Then you have the issue of driving your vehicle to pick up the deer. We would consider the last two examples permissible use of a vehicle to aid in the pursuit of deer. An overzealous game warden could decide to issue a citation and the hunter most would not consider to be in violation now risks prosecution.

Reasonably???? I don't think so. As you said that would be an extreme. And even at that, the MDC advocates the planting of food plots. They even offer instructions on to properly plant them.

And as for the picking up of your deer, once the deer is dead, the hunt is over. Therefore the pursuit is over. But these are just my opinions. But I don't think they are that far off.

[jdmidwest]

Just to be devil's advocate, does that mean that a person who is wheelchair bound cannot hunt? I've seen people hunt from motorized wheelchairs because they cannot propel themselves in any other fashion. Should they not enjoy the privilege of hunting the same as a person who can walk?

In a similar vein, where do you draw the line at "aid"? If I take an atv to within a half-mile of my stand, could that be interpreted as taking a deer with the aid of a vehicle? What about a quarter-mile? A hundred yards? Fifty? Now, can you shoot a deer while on the vehicle where you previously intended to stop? Do you get off/out and shoot? How many steps do you take? Can you shoot a deer you saw while operating the vehicle? At what point is the animal again fair game? Is a person sitting on an atv (not yet started), about to leave, who sees and shoots a deer in violation? What about the guy who was on a "deer drive" who sits on his atv to rest then sees a deer? Is driving from home to the intended hunting destination not using a vehicle to aid in the pursuit of a deer?

If you want to go to the extreme, discing a field you plan to hunt to plant a food plot could reasonably be considered use of a vehicle to aid the pursuit of deer. Then you have the issue of driving your vehicle to pick up the deer. We would consider the last two examples permissible use of a vehicle to aid in the pursuit of deer. An overzealous game warden could decide to issue a citation and the hunter most would not consider to be in violation now risks prosecution.

I think it was pretty cut and dried, they were using dogs to pursue deer and shooting them when they run by. I would think a motorized wheel chair would have to be stopped before you shoot for it to be legal. I don't think it is illegal to be sitting in a parked truck or atv, off the highway, and shoot a deer. You are not pursuing the deer if the vehicle is not in motion. You can't keep their attention with headlights and be legal.

It is about fair chase and ethics. Pursuing a deer with a motorized vehicle or boat is an ethical violation and not a fair chase. You can paddle a boat after game, run after game, and probably peddle a bike because you are using your own power, not a mechanical device to propel you. When you use a tractor to plow a field or a pickup to load a deer, you are not pursuing the deer itself.

[Outside Bend]

I suspect that if you put that to an 8th grade class 99% would have no trouble answering it. You have to wonder if given the fact that some, if not all, county judges are running for reelection this year could have anything to do with it?

That's initially what I thought as well, but from what I've read this isn't a county judge, he's a circuit judge, and was appointed to the position.

[Randall]

I think it was pretty cut and dried, they were using dogs to pursue deer and shooting them when they run by. I would think a motorized wheel chair would have to be stopped before you shoot for it to be legal. I don't think it is illegal to be sitting in a parked truck or atv, off the highway, and shoot a deer. You are not pursuing the deer if the vehicle is not in motion. You can't keep their attention with headlights and be legal.

It is about fair chase and ethics. Pursuing a deer with a motorized vehicle or boat is an ethical violation and not a fair chase. You can paddle a boat after game, run after game, and probably peddle a bike because you are using your own power, not a mechanical device to propel you. When you use a tractor to plow a field or a pickup to load a deer, you are not pursuing the deer itself.

A few posts ago, JDC said that you can't use a bicycle. If he were a game warden, he'd give you a ticket for riding a bike in pursuit. At that point, the law becomes a matter of subjective interpretation and that is what the judge ruled.

As far as pursuing a deer itself, is a person sitting in a treestand "pursuing" a deer that has not walked by? What constitutes "pursue"?

When does pursuit of a deer begin? When you see it? When you intend to shoot it? When you intend to attract it to an area?

[Chief Grey Bear]

A few posts ago, JDC said that you can't use a bicycle. If he were a game warden, he'd give you a ticket for riding a bike in pursuit. At that point, the law becomes a matter of subjective interpretation and that is what the judge ruled.

As far as pursuing a deer itself, is a person sitting in a treestand "pursuing" a deer that has not walked by? What constitutes "pursue"?

When does pursuit of a deer begin? When you see it? When you intend to shoot it? When you intend to attract it to an area?

A bicycle is a mechanical means of transportation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine

According to the MDC :

Pursue or Pursued:

The act of trying to find, to seek or to search for wildlife for the purpose of taking wildlife

http://mdc.mo.gov/about-us/regulations/regulations-and-permits-definitions

I find this to be pretty cut and dry too.

[ozark trout fisher]

The conservation commission has now approved an appeal of the Ripley county case... I bet the MDC will win if the judge is from anywhere outside of South-Central Missouri (in other words if he is not part of the "good old boy network" that Al Agnew referred to.)

http://www.semissourian.com/story/1658374.html

[jdmidwest]

A few posts ago, JDC said that you can't use a bicycle. If he were a game warden, he'd give you a ticket for riding a bike in pursuit. At that point, the law becomes a matter of subjective interpretation and that is what the judge ruled.

As far as pursuing a deer itself, is a person sitting in a treestand "pursuing" a deer that has not walked by? What constitutes "pursue"?

When does pursuit of a deer begin? When you see it? When you intend to shoot it? When you intend to attract it to an area?

The law states "Motorized". Human powered is different. You can row away or peddle away after a deer if you so desire as far as my interpretation of the law as I read it. Is it Ethical, no. Does anyone shoot deer off a bike, probably not.

Per the AP...

Mo. to appeal ruling on deer hunting regulations

Friday, August 20, 2010

The Associated Press

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- Missouri plans to appeal a court ruling striking down regulations against the use of dogs and vehicles in hunting deer.

The Missouri Conservation Commission voted Friday to proceed with an appeal of the ruling made earlier this month by a Ripley County judge.

At issue are state regulations that prohibit "motor-driven air, land or water conveyances" while deer hunting, and which say deer cannot be "hunted, pursued, taken or killed with the aid of dogs."

The judge ruled the regulations were unconstitutional because they are vague and overly broad.

The laws in question were regarding using dogs to hunt deer and shooting them from a truck. But were clear violations, not much gray area there.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Why do you consider hunting from a canoe unethical?

A lot of old timers still duck hunt that way. Some squirrel hunt and some deer hunt from a canoe too. I would love to take a late fall or winter float and shoot some tree rats. But I question the legality of that in the sense it doesn't appear you need land owner permission.