City Park Public Access

[FishinCricket]

I'm sending ALL of you a bill for allowing your water and fish to come through the creek on my property...

While I agree the landowner should be considerate enough to put up signs advising against trespassing, I'm wondering why he should HAVE to do that in order to earn the respect of anglers. Is it not pretty obvious you are leaving the city park and entering private property? I don't have to put up a sign in my yard telling you it's trespassing if you walk up to my door.

I suppose I was just raised to respect others and what they have.

Think all of us were, Terry.. I only went to Crane once, but I don't remember any signage past the train tracks..

I wouldn't expect a sign on land that is clearly private property (IE your example of the front yard), but I do think that the local community that I attempt to assist and support when I'm there would have the wherewithal to post that, considering they have the wherewithal to have the whole creek there, all wadeable and all...

Just my 465 cents.. (I can't stop at just two)

[Terry Beeson]

A better analogy would have been...

How would you feel if someone walked past your house on the sidewalk that runs through your front yard? I know I don't run to get my shotgun when I see someone approaching my property, even if I think he might toss his Snickers wrapper on my lawn.

Waterways, regardless of size, should be considered "rural sidewalks," but society has established different sets of rules for different types of property.

That analogy is even weaker... A sidewalk is built with public funds to protect pedestrians and keep them from having to walk in the street and risk being hit by traffic. Public domain/easement is legally granted due to that fact and, if I'm not mistaken, the right of way for the street includes the sidewalk.

The government did not build nor do they own the streams (or sections thereof) in question.

I will have to agree that Crane Creek is certainly a "gray area" in that MDC and the city of Crane have established public access points on the creek. I would have to say that this, especially due to the fact that MDC "advertises" Crane Creek, would make the creek a "float stream." Now, educating the landowner in question might be a stretch.

Read this from the MDC website.

As I read this, the landowner is not justified in keeping you from wading if you access from the park or other public access. However, asking permission is still the best course of action and most sportsmanlike.

Anyone ever ask this guy for permission? If so, what did he say? I'm just curious.

[troutfiend1985]

I'm sending ALL of you a bill for allowing your water and fish to come through the creek on my property...

While I agree the landowner should be considerate enough to put up signs advising against trespassing, I'm wondering why he should HAVE to do that in order to earn the respect of anglers. Is it not pretty obvious you are leaving the city park and entering private property? I don't have to put up a sign in my yard telling you it's trespassing if you walk up to my door.

I suppose I was just raised to respect others and what they have.

I'm not sure that a property owner has to do that in order to gain my respect for his property. I already have that, but by him posting his property line, I then know where my boudaries are and I will be less likely to infringe on his property through ignorance. I hope that makes sense. He knows where his property line begins, I might only have a clue at best.

[FishinCricket]

I'm not sure that a property owner has to do that in order to gain my respect for his property. I already have that, but by him posting his property line, I then know where my boudaries are and I will be less likely to infringe on his property through ignorance. I hope that makes sense. He knows where his property line begins, I might only have a clue at best.

Thank you, this is what I was feebly attempting to say...

[Greg]

While I agree the landowner should be considerate enough to put up signs advising against trespassing, I'm wondering why he should HAVE to do that in order to earn the respect of anglers. Is it not pretty obvious you are leaving the city park and entering private property? I don't have to put up a sign in my yard telling you it's trespassing if you walk up to my door.

I suppose I was just raised to respect others and what they have.

I've fished Crane multiple times and IMHO it's just not obvious at all when you are leaving the City Park. Certainly not anything near as obvious as walking from my to my neighbors yard.

I'm afraid I've inadvertantly trespassed on the landowners land that borders Crane a couple of times BUT I was raised to respect others as well. I've raised my 2 boys that way too.

Greg

[drew03cmc]

I think your critique of my point has some validity.

My aim was more to give city dwellers among us a sense of how it feels to find someone has fished your favorite hole a couple of hours before you planned to or put up a deer stand on your land: it feels like you've been violated and someone has sat in your easy chair.

I agree that it's important for landowners to post their land -- even more so after reading how blase a lot of people on this forum are about trespassing!

But there has certainly been much discussion in this thread of the idea that if I know (or suspect) it's private but it's not posted can I "get away with it."

And in that sense I think our points come together: if your front door isn't locked (I don't lock mine), if you don't have a no trespassing sign at the corner of your drive, if there isn't a fence between your neighbor's yard and yours, is it then acceptable for someone to come in to your house and crack open a brewski? Of course not.

Ditto all other forms of private property.

Again I'm about common decency. I agree that land owners could be more polite and that they should post their property. But I also know for many of us the fiftieth time we have to ask a trespasser to leave our land -- even when posted -- we tend to lose patience. It may be your first time trespassing on our land, but it's not our first time dealing with it and it gets really old.

That is not even close. We are talking about wading in the water, not finding a suitable tree on the land and putting a stand up.

[parachiteadams39]

That is not even close. We are talking about wading in the water, not finding a suitable tree on the land and putting a stand up.

The point is not about whether it's more egregious to poach deer from a deer stand or poach trout while wading on someone else's property. I agree that of these two acts the deer stand is more egregious, but they are both wrong and both illegal and, more important, both incredibly disrespectful and inconsiderate.

The point was meant to convey the sense that a private landowner has made a signficant investment (and often significant sacrifices) in order to own their property.

One of the rewards of this investment and these sacrifices is to be able to use the property as they wish, when they wish.

If the landowner decides to go fishing of an afternoon they should be able to do so without worrying that someone who has NOT made the investments and sacrifices they've made to own this land has fished their favorite hole.

[parachiteadams39]

This is from the MDC page mentioned earlier:

Obtaining legal access does not eliminate your responsibility to respect private property while fishing or floating. The majority of Missouri’s stream frontage is privately owned. The establishment of a Special Black Bass Management Area does not automatically give an angler the right to trespass on privately owned stream frontage

Also I would argue that the notion of Crane Creek as a "floatable" stream is fanciful at best.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I have floated it. And I plan on do another float on it.

[ozark trout fisher]

I have seen pictures of Crane, (never fished it) and can tell you I have canoed streams of that size. The idea that it is a floatable stream is not fanciful-similar sized streams have been ruled navigable in other states. I'm thinking specifically of a small wilderness stream in New York that I paddled this previous summer-the landowners tried for years to keep folks off the stream, but it has been recently considered navigable and opened up to floating.

And now everyone gets to enjoy it. Not just one person.